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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] masknonji
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On Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:06:33 Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote:
> Here's a recap on my views on Lojban syllables:
>=20
> There are 64 valid consonantal syllables:
>=20
> bl cl dl fl gl jl kl ml nl pl rl sl tl vl xl zl
> bm cm dm fm gm jm km lm nm pm rm sm tm vm xm zm
> bn cn dn fn gn jn kn ln mn pn rn sn tn vn xn zn
> br cr dr fr gr jr kr lr mr nr pr sr tr vr xr zr
>=20
> There are (2 + 36 + 4 + 97) x 10 x 18 =3D 25020 valid vocalic syllables.
>=20
> Each vocalic syllable consists of onset + nucleus + coda.
>=20
> There are 18 codas: b, c, d, f, g, j, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t v, x, z and
> empty. There are 10 nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, y
> There are 139 onsets, which we can divide into 4 groups:
>=20
> 2 special onsets: . and '
> (These are special in that . can only occur at the beginning of a
> word, and ' can only occur in the middle of a word, so in a sense they
> are complementary and could eventually be considered the same onset
> expressed differently in different contexts.)

But there are minimal pairs such as "na.e" and "na'e".

> 36 approximant onsets:
> i, bi, ci, di, fi, gi, ji, ki, li, mi, ni, pi, ri, si, ti, vi, xi, zi
> u, bu, cu, du, fu, ju, ku, lu, mu, nu, pu, ru, su, tu, vu, xu, zu
>=20
> 4 affricate onsets: dj, dz, tc, ts
>=20
> 97 ordinary onsets, consisting of 1, 2 or 3 consonants each taken in
> order from the following groups:
> [c, j, s, z] [b, d, f, g, k, m, n, p, t, v, x] [l, r]
>=20
> with the following constraints:
> - a voiced consonant from the first group cannot be followed by an
> unvoiced one from the second, and viceversa.

What about "smadi"? m and n are voiced, but can be preceded by an unvoiced=
=20
sibilant.

> - s, c cannot be followed by x
> - j, z cannot be followed by n or l
> - d, t cannot be followed by l
> - n cannot be followed by l, r
>=20
> So in all I have 25020 vocalic  + 64 consonantal =3D 25084 valid syllable=
s.
>=20
> This number increases considerably if we allow double-consonant codas.

Which double-consonant codas would you allow? I think that any double-
consonant that can occur in a word should be allowed at the end of a word (=
so=20
that we can use names formed by dropping the last letter of a gismu) and an=
y=20
double-consonant that can occur in a word and whose first letter is r, n, l=
, or=20
m should be allowed as a coda within a word.

Back to the fish, if I take the Ojibwa "maashkinoozhe" and drop the "maa", =
I=20
get "ckinoje" as a fu'ivla. How's that sound?

Pierre
--=20
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

--=20
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