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Subject: Re: [lojban] An opinion against Lojban/Loglan
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No, Loglan had cases, similar to BAI, but not quite the same. For 
example you'd have a case tag that tagged "recipient" or "agent". So 
with dunda, you could use the recipient tag to mark the recipient 
instead of having to put it in dunda3. The difference is that these tags 
were much less specific and there were only a bit over 10 of these so 
more overlap occured.


Am 24.02.2012 17:09, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu 
> <mailto:phma@phma.optus.nu>> wrote:
>
>     On Friday, February 24, 2012 05:20:48 gleki wrote:
>     > This was posted earlier today in the Russian group of lidepla
>     language.
>     > The following is written allegedly by Stephen Rice according to
>     the author
>     > of the group but it's not confirmed by anyone else. Anyway there
>     will be no
>     > confirmation.
>     > What's your opinion about the following ?
>     >
>     > Briefly: I don't consider either Loglan or Lojban viable auxlangs.
>     > They weren't designed for it. Their use of logical predicate
>     > structure, while making simple sentences easy to produce, also
>     bloats
>     > the lexicon, because you technically need a new predicate every time
>     > you change the underlying structure--something regular languages use
>     > adpositions to do. Unfortunately, they weren't designed for ease of
>     > derivation, either: Loglanists were originally supposed to chain
>     > together individual predicate words, much as in Toki Pona. The
>     > language was designed for that--it still is, despite some retrofits.
>
>     Lojban does have adpositions (sumtcita). All members of BAI are
>     prepositions,
>     and tense markers can also be used as prepositions.
>
>     > From a linguistic standpoint, the relationships differ sharply; as
>     > logical predicates, however, their structures are identical. Loglan
>     > mitigated this with a system of case tags, which the Lojbanists
>     > rejected. My Loglan 2.0 would be based on such a case system.
>
>     What does he mean?
>
>
>    I assumed here he WAS talking about BAI, but I could be wrong.
>                     --gejyspa
> -- 
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-- 
lo xlarai se cinmo cu ka nonkansa kei na gi'e ka ba'o se tolmorji zo'e noi do ba ze'e na kakne lo nu tolmorji fi ke'a

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    No, Loglan had cases, similar to BAI, but not quite the same. For
    example you'd have a case tag that tagged "recipient" or "agent". So
    with dunda, you could use the recipient tag to mark the recipient
    instead of having to put it in dunda3. The difference is that these
    tags were much less specific and there were only a bit over 10 of
    these so more overlap occured. <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Am 24.02.2012 17:09, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAKOEKkQANi4an-9oNZ4B87i6RW=b09vGdCdCMsC4-0GYqqXtPQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Pierre
          Abbat <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:phma@phma.optus.nu">phma@phma.optus.nu</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="im">On Friday, February 24, 2012 05:20:48 gleki
              wrote:<br>
              &gt; This was posted earlier today in the Russian group of
              lidepla language.<br>
              &gt; The following is written allegedly by Stephen Rice
              according to the author<br>
              &gt; of the group but it's not confirmed by anyone else.
              Anyway there will be no<br>
              &gt; confirmation.<br>
              &gt; What's your opinion about the following ?<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; Briefly: I don't consider either Loglan or Lojban
              viable auxlangs.<br>
              &gt; They weren't designed for it. Their use of logical
              predicate<br>
              &gt; structure, while making simple sentences easy to
              produce, also bloats<br>
              &gt; the lexicon, because you technically need a new
              predicate every time<br>
              &gt; you change the underlying structure--something
              regular languages use<br>
              &gt; adpositions to do. Unfortunately, they weren't
              designed for ease of<br>
              &gt; derivation, either: Loglanists were originally
              supposed to chain<br>
              &gt; together individual predicate words, much as in Toki
              Pona. The<br>
              &gt; language was designed for that--it still is, despite
              some retrofits.<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            Lojban does have adpositions (sumtcita). All members of BAI
            are prepositions,<br>
            and tense markers can also be used as prepositions.<br>
            <div class="im"><br>
              &gt; From a linguistic standpoint, the relationships
              differ sharply; as<br>
              &gt; logical predicates, however, their structures are
              identical. Loglan<br>
              &gt; mitigated this with a system of case tags, which the
              Lojbanists<br>
              &gt; rejected. My Loglan 2.0 would be based on such a case
              system.<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            What does he mean?<br>
            <font color="#888888"><br>
            </font></blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>&nbsp; &nbsp;I assumed here he WAS talking about BAI, but I could
            be wrong.</div>
          <div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --gejyspa</div>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
        </div>
      </div>
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      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en</a>.<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
lo xlarai se cinmo cu ka nonkansa kei na gi'e ka ba'o se tolmorji zo'e noi do ba ze'e na kakne lo nu tolmorji fi ke'a</pre>
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