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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Hanseatic marzipan fu'ivla?
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:40:29 -0500
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On Thursday, February 23, 2012 23:34:09 Jacob Errington wrote:
> They both seem good to me, but I'm very fu'ivla-liberal, so I'm not a good
> reference for this.
> I'd suggest using type-3 variations of these, to be understood fully
> without need of the vlaste:
> {kulnrxa'anze} and {cidjrmarsipane}
> As the conversation progresses and the words are reused though, shift to
> the type-4, as they're shorter.
> 
> In my opinion, fu'ivla should have as little places as possible, and when
> it comes to food fu'ivla, a structure such as "x1 is/contains [food] of
> type x2" always seems sufficient. Does marzipan really contain elements
> that merit places all to themselves? An "of type" place is vague enough to
> allow the speaker to mean whatever he or she wants with it, either by
> specifying a named type with [la] and friends, or using abstract raising
> with [zo'e pe] on tags or regular sumti. For instance:
> {lo [cidjr]marsipane be zo'e pe secau lo naltitla ri'orsmela} "Marzipan
> (made) without bitter almonds", where [ri'orsmela] can be replaced with an
> alternative not using the experimental gismu [smela], such as [crino zei
> rutrprunu] or [ri'onrutrprunu] or whatever.

You can't join a rafsi ending in a vowel with a following fu'ivla rafsi by 
sticking an interfix consonant, as that just results in a longer fu'ivla. That 
lujvo should be "crinyrutrprunu". "ri'orsmela" is well-formed.

"naltitla" doesn't mean "bitter", it means "non-sweet". "tolslari" is unclear: 
perceptually it's sweet, but chemically it's bitter. Bitter is "kurki". What 
do we call umami?

All the names of plants have a taxon of some sort in x2, so you can say "ti 
ricrprunu la'o ly. amygdalus .ly". But I just say "mugdali".

> Of course, one could make a lujvo for marzipan, but if shortness is a
> requirement, fu'ivla are the way to go. I'd propose: [smelyjtitla], if
> we're accepting [smela] or [ci'onrutrprunu'ytitla] if we're accepting a
> BPFK proposal concering fu'ivla rafsi or [crino zei rutrprunu zei titla] if
> we're limiting ourselves to CLL Lojban.

You mean "smelytitla", right? Since "rutrprunu" (like all type-3 fu'ivla 
ending in single vowels) can form its rafsi by dropping the last vowel, you 
can say "rutrprunytitla".

"marsipane" and "xa'anze" sound good to me.

Pierre

-- 
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.

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