Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]:61821)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCLylh5PZCBDasM76BBoEEBdkUA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1S4EJJ-0000RZ-3O; Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:29:31 -0800
Received: by lagv3 with SMTP id v3sf3239155lag.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:29:17 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lojban+bncCLylh5PZCBDasM76BBoEEBdkUA@googlegroups.com designates 10.180.92.130 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.180.92.130;
Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lojban+bncCLylh5PZCBDasM76BBoEEBdkUA@googlegroups.com designates 10.180.92.130 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lojban+bncCLylh5PZCBDasM76BBoEEBdkUA@googlegroups.com; dkim=pass header.i=lojban+bncCLylh5PZCBDasM76BBoEEBdkUA@googlegroups.com
Received: from mr.google.com ([10.180.92.130])
        by 10.180.92.130 with SMTP id cm2mr3901176wib.0.1330878557085 (num_hops = 1);
        Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:29:17 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to
         :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=g+t0yyDFeBdBG62sqLja5PNAJj49V+GwXjAzupeCLHE=;
        b=ZnExg0BImvN1hNxINToq/42HEB/d27zwxUWqm21wMURtZ6NpyniHW8jvir7jT5s1kt
         ZSN0YOj66tSPmhsqDF/dJOlW6SvmEMcacqiMzsGE1PBulj4+hY0pe0OlaGevURnrs/xs
         vYunmJNeZLWzUhwTkj4R3DQMn4In7kjy6oxUQ=
Received: by 10.180.92.130 with SMTP id cm2mr1180578wib.0.1330878554506;
        Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:29:14 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.180.6.74 with SMTP id y10ls2690315wiy.4.canary; Sun, 04 Mar
 2012 08:29:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.180.93.68 with SMTP id cs4mr447965wib.3.1330878553944;
        Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:29:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.216.69.74 with SMTP id m52mswed;
        Sat, 3 Mar 2012 09:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.154.143 with SMTP id o15mr1131263bkw.4.1330794086078;
        Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.154.143 with SMTP id o15mr1131262bkw.4.1330794086056;
        Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f52.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f52.google.com [209.85.215.52])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o5si10737208bkz.0.2012.03.03.09.01.25
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ridcatras@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.52;
Received: by mail-lpp01m010-f52.google.com with SMTP id i5so4456854lah.11
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ridcatras@gmail.com designates 10.112.47.161 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.112.47.161;
Received: from mr.google.com ([10.112.47.161])
        by 10.112.47.161 with SMTP id e1mr7427338lbn.42.1330794085922 (num_hops = 1);
        Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:01:25 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.112.47.161 with SMTP id e1mr6076584lbn.42.1330794085809; Sat,
 03 Mar 2012 09:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.112.95.19 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 09:01:25 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CAMXsxUEDJETKB6g=RoDxj_B5vxTRF2cTDDT2OioJx3UXv-V0KQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1238c2a6-9582-4fd1-adb7-c122292ffb2e@cj6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<CAMKwHj0mFDn2VTOvjBtGPjaDXTj-xUQJ+AGMBu-6DE5N48m4oA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d75ca688-41e0-4b63-a51b-44ef512401f8@gi10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<CAMXsxUF-out8ZT2+zg+au8knh8scqDVLtfKv_J6X-vCja0QWjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXsxUEDJETKB6g=RoDxj_B5vxTRF2cTDDT2OioJx3UXv-V0KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 18:01:25 +0100
Message-ID: <CAGPT+FDXdHMy2wRm8Kbcn_x-v5Rw11YFxBb8k1_ZebjwoxiWsw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Rhetoric and Oratory, "the fruit of Arabic"
From: David Demartin <ridcatras@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: ridcatras@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of ridcatras@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.52 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=ridcatras@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec553fefac0ff1504ba59a468
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

--bcaec553fefac0ff1504ba59a468
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

awesome translation, thanks.




Le 2 mars 2012 13:28, Muhammad an-Nuqrashi <muhammad.nael@gmail.com> a
=E9crit :

> coi
>> Young people,
>>  Rhetoric: the using of all grammars in speech, even if it optional,
>> almost, "you can stand on the logic"
>>  Eloquence: to use the most appropriate synonym in every place in
>> speech.
>> The  both is the magnificence of speech and remove the ambiguity for
>> the listener completely.
>>  This is advisable for the speakers to lojban.
>
>
> *Welcome,*
> *Youth,*
> *To speak rhetorically is to use the grammar and vocabulary of the
> language to the full extent; you don't only choose the fastest way to say
> something that could be clearer when said in longer phrases, and you don'=
t
> do the opposite when ambiguity is negligible enough for human readers. Yo=
u
> "overcome" logic by using the "invisible logic," aka common-sense and
> relying on that the reader should have it.*
> *It isn't advisable to cherish brevity over clearness. Mega-words that
> have many meanings of one concept in a language like Lojban (relying on
> lujvo's for other meanings) are usually a bad idea as most people tend to
> hold themselves onto what the dictionary offers.*
> *This is advisable for Lojban speakers.*
> *
> *
> And I'm out for today!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.


--bcaec553fefac0ff1504ba59a468
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

awesome translation, thanks.<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Le 2 mars 2012 13:28, Muhammad an-Nuqrashi <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muhammad.nael@gmail.com">muhammad.nael@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> a =E9crit :<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"im"><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,=
204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span>coi</span><br>
<span>Young people,</span><br><span>=A0Rhetoric: the using of all grammars =
in speech, even if it optional,<br></span><span>almost, &quot;you can stand=
 on the logic&quot;<br></span><span>=A0Eloquence: to use the most appropria=
te synonym in every place in<br>

</span><span>speech.</span><br><span>The =A0both is the magnificence of spe=
ech and remove the ambiguity for<br></span><span>the listener completely.<b=
r></span><span>=A0This is advisable for the speakers to lojban.</span></blo=
ckquote>

<div><br></div></div><div><i>Welcome,</i></div><div><i>Youth,</i></div><div=
><i>To speak rhetorically is to use the grammar and vocabulary of the langu=
age to the full extent; you don&#39;t only choose the fastest way to say so=
mething that could be clearer when said in longer phrases, and you don&#39;=
t do the opposite when ambiguity is=A0negligible enough for human readers. =
You &quot;overcome&quot; logic by using the &quot;invisible logic,&quot; ak=
a common-sense and relying on that the reader should have it.</i></div>

<div><i>It isn&#39;t advisable to cherish brevity over clearness. Mega-word=
s that have many meanings of one concept in a language like Lojban (relying=
 on lujvo&#39;s for other meanings) are usually a bad idea as most people t=
end to hold themselves onto what the dictionary offers.</i></div>

<div><i>This is advisable for Lojban speakers.</i></div><div><i><br></i></d=
iv><div>And I&#39;m out for today!</div>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--bcaec553fefac0ff1504ba59a468--