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From: Sid <cntrational@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 21:27:43 +0530
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Using Lojban in 'very' defined contexts (eg. maths)
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"Eleven" and "twelve" come from Proto-Germanic *ainlif and *twalif,
which are in turn derived from phrases that were literally "one left"
and "two left". But, yeah, I goofed; English has special words for 11
and 12 because its ancestors were duodecimal, but it's not fully
duodecimal today.

On 5 March 2012 20:37, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Nope, decimal.=A0 "Eleven" and "twelve" just mean "one over" and "two ove=
r" --
> over ten, of course
> SWH is notoriously ill-defined and most of the formulations miss crucial
> parts of the original.=A0 That being said, the summation of acceptance is
> about right.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sid <cntrational@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Using Lojban in 'very' defined contexts (eg. maths)
>
> doi la'oi Fr=F6jd
>
> English uses eleven and twelve because it's base-12, not base-10.
>
> doi lai ry Muhammad an-Nuqrashi ry
>
> Sapir-Whorf has two variants -- one is whether language *limits* what
> you can think, and the other is if language merely influences how you
> think. The former is near completely disproven, the latter is fairly
> well accepted.
>
> mi'e cntr
>
> On 3 March 2012 20:08, Sebastian Fr=F6jd <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been trying to find the reference of what I've been reading, but I
>> haven't found it yet. From what I remember, it was something about chine=
se
>> count like eight-nine-ten-tenone-tentwo etc, instead of the illogical
>> eleven-twelve etc. So that could be the cause why chinese children grasp
>> the
>> base-10 position system earlier. Unfortunately I have no reference to th=
is
>> research at the moment. But maybe this could be a start?:
>>
>> "Other experiments have demonstrated differences in how Westerners and
>> East
>> Asians think about objects (Iwao & Gentner, 1997), numbers (Lucy &
>> Gaskins,
>> 1997), and space (Levinson, 1996) and how processing numbers when doing
>> arithmetic problems is related to language differences between
>> Chinese-speaking and English-speaking participants (Tang et al., 2006)"
>>
>> mu'omi'e jongausib
>>
>>
>> 2012/3/3 Muhammad an-Nuqrashi <muhammad.nael@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> I've read a bit in Mandarin and its sisters but I never got as far as
>>> numerals; mostly stopped at the Wikipedia page!
>>> +Sebastian, I'd really, really^99,=A0love to see a paper about that
>>> research. I've been fascinated with SW-H until they left me no evidence
>>> it
>>> could exist... If the research is 'that' positive, I might take out a f=
ew
>>> old projects from my safe!
>>>
>>>>
>>>> From my meager experience, the lojban system is nicer than English for
>>>> thinking of _numbers_, as long as _quantity_ doesn't matter. That's
>>>> okay, though, because any digit based system is poor at expressing
>>>> quantity at scale.
>>>
>>>
>>> +.arpis. , So that's a 'go-for-it' recommendation?
>>>
>>> PS. I'm sorry for late replies, those I've made and those yet to come,
>>> but
>>> my connection is quite unstable >.<
>>>
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>>
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