Well, I do= n't read the PG that way, but rather as the result of taking away ten, the = base. Dozens are about the only duodecimal thing left in any Germanic= culture and those persist in America for non-numerical reasons.
=

From: Sid <cntrational@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] U= sing Lojban in 'very' defined contexts (eg. maths)

"Eleven" and "twelve" come from Proto-Germanic *ainlif and *twalif,
whic= h are in turn derived from phrases that were literally "one left"
and "t= wo left". But, yeah, I goofed; English has special words for 11
and 12 b= ecause its ancestors were duodecimal, but it's not fully
duodecimal toda= y.

On 5 March 2012 20:37, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.= com> wrote:
> Nope, decimal. "Eleven" and "twelve" just = mean "one over" and "two over" --
> over ten, of course
> SWH i= s notoriously ill-defined and most of the formulations miss crucial
>= parts of the original. That being said, the summation of acceptance = is
> about right.
>
> ________________________________> From: Sid <cntrational@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:= 14 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Using Lojban in 'very' defined contexts= (eg. maths)
>
> doi la'oi Fr=F6jd
>
> English uses= eleven and twelve because it's base-12, not base-10.
>
> doi l= ai ry Muhammad an-Nuqrashi ry
>
> Sapir-Whorf has two variants = -- one is whether language *limits* what
> you can think, and the oth= er is if language merely influences how you
> think. The former is ne= ar completely disproven, the latter is fairly
> well accepted.
>= ;
> mi'e cntr
>
> On 3 March 2012 20:08, Sebastian Fr=F6j= d <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been try= ing to find the reference of what I've been reading, but I
>> have= n't found it yet. From what I remember, it was something about chinese
>= > count like eight-nine-ten-tenone-tentwo etc, instead of the illogical<= br>>> eleven-twelve etc. So that could be the cause why chinese child= ren grasp
>> the
>> base-10 position system earlier. Unfo= rtunately I have no reference to this
>> research at the moment. B= ut maybe this could be a start?:
>>
>> "Other experiments= have demonstrated differences in how Westerners and
>> East
&g= t;> Asians think about objects (Iwao & Gentner, 1997), numbers (Lucy= &
>> Gaskins,
>> 1997), and space (Levinson, 1996) a= nd how processing numbers when doing
>> arithmetic problems is rel= ated to language differences between
>> Chinese-speaking and Engli= sh-speaking participants (Tang et al., 2006)"
>>
>> mu'om= i'e jongausib
>>
>>
>> 2012/3/3 Muhammad an-Nuqrashi <muhammad.nael@gmail.com>
>>>=
>>> I've read a bit in Mandarin and its sisters but I never go= t as far as
>>> numerals; mostly stopped at the Wikipedia page!=
>>> +Sebastian, I'd really, really^99, love to see a pape= r about that
>>> research. I've been fascinated with SW-H until= they left me no evidence
>>> it
>>> could exist...= If the research is 'that' positive, I might take out a few
>>>= old projects from my safe!
>>>
>>>>
>>= >> From my meager experience, the lojban system is nicer than English= for
>>>> thinking of _numbers_, as long as _quantity_ doesn= 't matter. That's
>>>> okay, though, because any digit based= system is poor at expressing
>>>> quantity at scale.
>>>
>>>
>>> +.arpis. , So that'= s a 'go-for-it' recommendation?
>>>
>>> PS. I'm sor= ry for late replies, those I've made and those yet to come,
>>>= but
>>> my connection is quite unstable >.<
>>&= gt;
>>> --
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>>
>>
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