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On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:01 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

> The number of Esperanto speakers has dropped in China considerably in the
> last decades.
> Esperanto leaders say it's all because it's hard for native Chinese
> speakers to learn Latin alphabet and understand that each symbol doesn't
> represent any semantic element but rather just a (usually) meaningless
> sound.
>
> That's why I'm happy that Lojban doesn't have any official writing system=
.
>

Yes it does. It's called the "standard orthography". CLL
3.1<http://dag.github.com/cll/3/1/>

We just also happen to have alternative orthographies for those so
inclined. I even made a katakana-based orthography some ways back.


> Here is a draft of h=C3=A0nz=C3=AC (Chinese symbol)-based Lojbanic writin=
g method.
>
> 1. Every gismu and it's corresponding rafsi are represented using one
> symbol usually taken from h=C3=A0nz=C3=AC table.
> e.g. {melbi} is =E7=BE=8E  (pronounced as melbi, but in the original Chin=
ese
> script it's mei3 that means "beautiful")
> =E6=9B=B4 - zmadu (in hanzi it means "more" or "to change")
> 1a. Rafsi are written with exactly the same symbols but may be pronounced
> in a short form (not only {melb}, but {mle}, {mle} too)
> 2. Lujvo are written by joining several gismu together using simple
> character. For now I suggest caret (^) but it might be changed.
> e.g.
> =E7=BE=8E^=E6=9B=B4 - mlemau
> 3. Personal names are written using jbopomofo or standard Chinese methods
> (using rare symbols with predefined sounding to represent certain sounds
> instead of meaning)
>

Good luck with that, but it seems to me that that orthography would make
Lojban even harder. The "this is a lujvo" marker is an interesting idea,
but it breaks audio-visual isomorphism, which is one of the foundation
stones of Lojban, as does using the same symbol for a word and it's rafsi.
In order to have isomorphism, what is written must be able to be said, and
vice versa, without any information being lost or required to be added.

--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:01 AM, gleki <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The number of Esperanto speakers has dropped in China considerably in the l=
ast decades.<div>Esperanto leaders say it&#39;s all because it&#39;s hard f=
or native Chinese speakers to learn Latin alphabet and understand that each=
 symbol doesn&#39;t represent any semantic element but rather just a (usual=
ly) meaningless sound.</div>
<div><br></div><div>That&#39;s why I&#39;m happy that Lojban doesn&#39;t ha=
ve any official writing system.</div></blockquote><div><br>Yes it does. It&=
#39;s called the &quot;standard orthography&quot;. <a href=3D"http://dag.gi=
thub.com/cll/3/1/">CLL 3.1</a><br>
<br>We just also happen to have alternative orthographies for those so incl=
ined. I even made a katakana-based orthography some ways back.<br>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div></div><div>Here is a draft of h=C3=A0nz=C3=AC (Chinese symbol)-based L=
ojbanic writing method.</div><div><br></div><div>1. Every gismu and it&#39;=
s corresponding rafsi are represented using one symbol usually taken from=
=C2=A0h=C3=A0nz=C3=AC table.</div>
<div>e.g. {melbi} is =E7=BE=8E =C2=A0(pronounced as melbi, but in the origi=
nal Chinese script it&#39;s mei3 that means &quot;beautiful&quot;)</div><di=
v>=E6=9B=B4 - zmadu (in hanzi it means &quot;more&quot; or &quot;to change&=
quot;)<br></div><div>
1a. Rafsi are written with exactly the same symbols but may be pronounced i=
n a short form (not only {melb}, but {mle}, {mle} too)</div><div>2. Lujvo a=
re written by joining several gismu together using simple character. For no=
w I suggest caret (^) but it might be changed.</div>
<div>e.g.=C2=A0</div><div>=E7=BE=8E^=E6=9B=B4 - mlemau<br></div><div>3.=C2=
=A0Personal=C2=A0names are written using jbopomofo or standard Chinese meth=
ods (using rare symbols with predefined sounding to represent certain sound=
s instead of meaning)<font color=3D"#888888"><br>



</font></div></blockquote></div><br>Good luck with that, but it seems to me=
 that that orthography would make Lojban even harder. The &quot;this is a l=
ujvo&quot; marker is an interesting idea, but it breaks audio-visual isomor=
phism, which is one of the foundation stones of Lojban, as does using the s=
ame symbol for a word and it&#39;s rafsi. In order to have isomorphism, wha=
t is written must be able to be said, and vice versa, without any informati=
on being lost or required to be added. <br clear=3D"all">
<br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo piln=
o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Lu=
ke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
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