Received: from mail-ey0-f189.google.com ([209.85.215.189]:51159) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S504F-0003Hv-2E; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:29:04 -0800 Received: by eaan10 with SMTP id n10sf5353603eaa.16 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lojban+bncCMGclZyxExD0ytn6BBoE_c8mlw@googlegroups.com designates 10.180.99.72 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.180.99.72; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lojban+bncCMGclZyxExD0ytn6BBoE_c8mlw@googlegroups.com designates 10.180.99.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lojban+bncCMGclZyxExD0ytn6BBoE_c8mlw@googlegroups.com; dkim=pass header.i=lojban+bncCMGclZyxExD0ytn6BBoE_c8mlw@googlegroups.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.180.99.72]) by 10.180.99.72 with SMTP id eo8mr11681992wib.2.1331062136022 (num_hops = 1); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=S7BdIHye1saIudhfrPy1tXHAAiicY/NJ6Q/cM/QWoUc=; b=55gWXkN69cBUPLVEdiq2i8advpfUPI8dJuiLxxx/5ez3zrMBcM0+ub+Nvex4C0yQQE 0FmnPnCV9nbA2xCBeJtr6jZxXgwyEL2YO856ETTR6iByCRGWfDijhCt9g5CzqoXLvdtB gM/A63g9QyZ5C0wDgSYqfXlOYnd5VQaZjQIpg= Received: by 10.180.99.72 with SMTP id eo8mr3418271wib.2.1331062132228; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.52.14 with SMTP id d14ls510853eec.8.gmail; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.209.196 with SMTP id s46mr600007weo.0.1331062130289; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.209.196 with SMTP id s46mr600006weo.0.1331062130270; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-f170.google.com (mail-we0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o8si6022165wic.0.2012.03.06.11.28.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.170; Received: by mail-we0-f170.google.com with SMTP id h12so7415010wer.1 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 10.180.88.199 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.180.88.199; Received: from mr.google.com ([10.180.88.199]) by 10.180.88.199 with SMTP id bi7mr26573405wib.12.1331062130258 (num_hops = 1); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.88.199 with SMTP id bi7mr21077199wib.12.1331062130117; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.144.212 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201203051503.56049.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <30903050.276.1330692193136.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynca15> <201203051503.56049.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:28:50 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Using Lojban in 'very' defined contexts (eg. maths) From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / This discussion about 11 and 12 is a diversion from the main subject. The main topic has to do with the way we represent numbers. Numbers can work either as a MNEMONIC (in which case, one-two-three is just the same kind of thing as A-B-C, foo-bar-foobar, or A-3-foobar) or as a QUANTITY The important thing with QUANTITY is that they are the compound of a NUMBER with a MAGNITUDE, that is, in two thousands, it's either 2000 either 2 x (unit = a thousand). This has to do with what the French call "chiffres significatifs" (meaningful digits ?) In the number 2700, 2 and 7 are meaningful digits, but 7 is less meaningful than 2, because it imports some precision whereas 2 indicates the big number. The 0s are not meaningful at all, as can be seen if we get another unit in base 10 : 2700 = 27 x 100 = 2,7 x 10^3, and so on. In the process of MEANING in a QUANTITY, it is mandatory to distinguish meaningful numbers from meaningless ones. Speaking of 2300 as 2 thousands 3 hundreds carries the meaning that it is in fact 2 x 10^3 + 3 x 10^2, which does not exist in the lojbanic way of numerating... This is important, because 2000 + 1000 can be viewed either as 2000 + 1000 or as 2 thousands + 1 thousand, which is isomorphic to 2 apples + 1 apple QUANTITIES are the converse form of QUALITY, that is, 2100 come naturally with "apples" or "dollars" or "Newtons"... And in the concept of Quality, the unit takes place, thus : "kilo-", "Mega-", "Giga-", "Tera-" which are just another way to say powers of tens. This is not required at all for MNEMONIC. The name of a room, of a computer, of a login, or even of a year, is a mnemonic, and thus, can be registered through a simple sequence of digits, --- which QUANTITIES are not fit for. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.