Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:60221) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S55i5-0005cG-49; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:34 -0800 Received: by qcsq5 with SMTP id q5sf6129649qcs.16 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wqGD0uC8DbvYD+vGqu7CFqMBOZ2ZuZwb/cSQSeOU9SE=; b=rnbgwg0Z8PtQS6pK6Oebk+qVrUeFdaBiivR8Fu1Uc9E2t9i3TASj92NQbder900/d3 HVmfsAY/BPe+SK0YhOIicLvHV9rEXeSHulOcMOAVj+tupjiTGDmgy3qG3bEX5mFd9VYn 0Ddn0yh+VjtHBNXhbZ8q+9S4QqppULTqpzIww= Received: by 10.52.89.235 with SMTP id br11mr21929vdb.9.1331083822813; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:22 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.128.139 with SMTP id k11ls1513664vcs.5.gmail; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.88.102 with SMTP id bf6mr388357vdb.2.1331083821810; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.88.102 with SMTP id bf6mr388355vdb.2.1331083821801; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from pi.meson.org (pi.meson.org. [96.56.207.26]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id jz14si8291260vdb.1.2012.03.06.17.30.21; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) client-ip=96.56.207.26; Received: (qmail 13036 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2012 01:30:21 -0000 Received: from nagas.meson.org (192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 7 Mar 2012 01:30:21 -0000 Message-ID: <4F56BA2C.7010104@kli.org> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 20:30:20 -0500 From: "Mark E. Shoulson" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_A_suggestion_for_new_h=E0nz=EC=2Dbase_writi?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ng_system?= References: <20394136.112.1331024477793.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbcu2> In-Reply-To: <20394136.112.1331024477793.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbcu2> X-Original-Sender: mark@kli.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) smtp.mail=mark@kli.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Hanzi for Lojban is an excellent notion (has it already been=20 entertained?) Hanzi are probably better-suited to Lojban than the Latin=20 alphabet is, and possibly better-suited to Lojban than they are to=20 Chinese. A fixed, *closed* number of roots, each representable by a=20 single figure, none needing to be related to the others... Sounds good=20 to me. Each gismu should have a single official graph, as close as possible in=20 meaning. It will never be perfect, but the mapping of sounds to Latin=20 letters isn't perfect either, to an English-speaker. Rafsi use exactly=20 the same graph, as you propose, except they're linked together to make=20 lujvo. It's reminiscent of the distinct on/kun readings in Japanese,=20 where they have different pronunciations if they're in compound or other=20 environments. I don't like your ^ because it separates as much as joins,=20 and since there won't be spaces between the graphs in general (or will=20 there?) you wind up with lujvo-elements that are more visually separated=20 than adjacent words. Something like a COMBINING DOUBLE INVERTED BREVE or=20 COMBINING DOUBLE BREVE BELOW would be nice, though I'm not sure applying=20 such non-Han diacritics to Han characters doesn't qualify as an unholy=20 abomination. Something small, some little separator that joins more than=20 it separates... Maybe something like =CB=8CMODIFIER LETTER LOW VERTICAL LIN= E=20 or =CB=88MODIFIER LETTER VERTICAL LINE, squeezed between the rafsi-graphs? Presumably specific graphs for the cmavo as well. There we lose the=20 cmavo/brivla distinction that the Latin writing system gives, with the=20 consonant clusters. (what might be cool is to take the cmavo-graphs from=20 katana/hiragana, which are visually distinct from the Han graphs, but=20 then you'd wind up straying pretty far from pronunciation and meaning). And yes, some kludgy whatever for cmene and fu'ivla (these also suffer,=20 by never being able to reduce the markedness of being written all funny). ~mark --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.