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From: ".arpis." Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 20:49:42 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] footnotes, etc? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Are you sure you meant {xo'e}? za'a It's an experimental cmavo meaning the same thing as {lo}. On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > Huh how coincidental, I was discussing footnotes and endnotes in #lojban > just a few days ago. > It seems like there are many ways to do this, some of which use only > standard lojban, and a few others which require experimental cmavo. I'd > strongly prefer to see the first variety be used, naturally. > > 1) Works only after a sumti. [ko'a nesa'a zo'e pe li xo'e], where xo'e is > the number of the footnote/endnote. Replacing [zo'e] with something more > precise would allow for disambiguation in that regard. For "footnote" in > particular, I'd suggest [ko'a nesa'a lo papri fanmo notci pe li xo'e]. Th= e > use of [sa'a] is perhaps optional. > > 2) Works anywhere. Wrap the following in a to/to'i...toi: [e'u catlu zo'e= pe > li xo'e], where zo'e and xo'e are replaced as in the previous solution. T= his > solution is arguably less good than #1, as when using a to...toi, I don't > think that it's good practice to refer to the surrounding text. Of course= , > using to'i...toi is perhaps better. > > 3) Requires a new cmavo and works only after sumti. Let xi'i be a cmavo o= f > XI, meaning "see footnote". > > 4) Requires a new cmavo and works everywhere. Let mai'a be a cmavo of MAI= , > meaning "see footnote". > > 5) Requires a new cmavo, uses nonstandard Lojban, and works everywhere. L= et > xi'i be a cmavo of XI and let XI equate to a free modifier. > > These are the solutions that I can think of; there are certainly more. Al= so, > [xi'i] and [mai'a] are completely made up, they aren't in jvovlaste or kn= own > by any lojbanists, unless of course someone else has been using one or th= e > other or both for some other purpose, in which case I apologise. > > As for the text of the footnotes, there are many possibilities again. Eac= h > footnote could be individually wrapped in a TO...toi, or the full text of > the footnotes could be wrapped in a single parenthetical remark. Also, on= e > could also simply use [ni'o]...[no'i] for the text of the footnotes. This > would be more inline with the solutions not involving wrapping the footno= te > number in a parenthetical remark, as I believe that it is bad to refer to > the contents of a parenthetical remark from within the main text. (IIRC, = the > CLL says not to do so as well.) I suggest using [mai] to mark the number > being used for the following text until another [mai] is reached. If [mai= ] > is already being used in the main text and confusion might result from us= ing > regular [mai], perhaps the footnotes could all be negative numbers, in or= der > to ensure that there's no confusion between a reference to a footnote and= a > reference to another section. Also, if [mai] is being used in a situation > where the text of a footnote contains a reference to a footnote, it would > become impossible to use subscripting as suggested below. In that case, I > would suggest using a zo'u-and-tu'e..tu'u system like so: {i lo papri fan= mo > notci pe li pa xi re zo'u tu'e i li'o tu'u}. Using [ni'o] for each new > footnote might be a good idea as well, but this makes wrapping the whole > footnote section in [ni'o]...[no'i] more confusing. > > As for footnotes within footnotes, (footnoteception? :P ) it is possible = to > use subscripting to disambiguate, using any of the solutions mentioned > above, except=A0the solutions involving [mai], as the number preceding [m= ai] > cannot be subscripted. [mai] itself may not be subscripted either, unless > the author adheres to XI-as-a-free-modifier (which is nonstandard Lojban)= . > > i ma se jinvi > mu'o mi'e la tsani > > > On 8 March 2012 19:34, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >> Hey! .skaryzgik. is back! Hoorah! >> >> Regarding your question, I'm pretty sure we have header and footer cmavo= , >> but I don't know what they are nor have the time currently to look them = up. >> Hopefully .xorxes. or Pierre or Robin can provide better information on >> that. >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Marjorie Scherf >> wrote: >>> >>> coi rodo >>> >>> So, I've been reading a lot of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series in th= e >>> last week or so, which, those if any of you who are familiar with these >>> books may be aware, are full of footnotes. A little asterisk at the end= , or >>> in the middle, of a sentence, corresponding to one at the bottom of the >>> page, which explains the thing immediately preceding the one above, or = tells >>> some related story. Sometimes even the footnotes have footnotes. And, s= ince >>> these books are also reminding me of several things I want to use lojba= n >>> for, the various strands of thought tangled together and I wondered how >>> lojban would accomplish something similar. Would we merely use >>> parentheticals, or would something else be more appropriate? >>> >>> mu'omi'e la .jdakrat.skaryzgik. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. --=20 mu'o mi'e .arpis. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.