Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:59731) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S5qUd-0006dJ-Aa; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:48 -0800 Received: by ggmi2 with SMTP id i2sf1131982ggm.16 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-id:x-yahoo-newman-property :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-smtp:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=CYf3F2+FfblU7HAqRFs+8SvJ+PTFHJa/IiD2ZqM3ib8=; b=pc1FT7pnHDMf3MnXdvmkFqwHl6fFDVlYH5tEBKc8RsF/FC033BGjhjRs7knHXdRp9j PoSemPLQ7ESaOcrUPIRvrXkh8Fga/1cb75vqZMnN+XmetrZUM15j7jMuwjVstuQM1j4a EYl5QSyJqpd1ZjiIBeF/6L8TQ519mQL2mu92I= Received: by 10.52.22.3 with SMTP id z3mr69273vde.2.1331263657061; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:37 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.73.134 with SMTP id l6ls4365390vdv.7.gmail; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.20.173 with SMTP id o13mr1327750vde.1.1331263656433; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.20.173 with SMTP id o13mr1327749vde.1.1331263656422; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nm37-vm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm37-vm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com. [72.30.238.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id y2si2058955vdt.3.2012.03.08.19.27.36; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 72.30.238.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=72.30.238.205; Received: from [98.139.212.147] by nm37.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2012 03:27:36 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.200] by tm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2012 03:27:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1009.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2012 03:27:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 32783.15111.bm@omp1009.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 35111 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2012 03:27:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 65ZidVkVM1lXjSa7HuJFZ.IcRNQqt1lQDWSiUbmgpjrzZ_0 YSH_1cRmgvKnjbAb1Y6vQVgpOU0KYzBHsmZ44yyEGeUa6xD1mqifscetrcp1 PTaLzCqESxMGWKK6M3iXBXEcqlfkT5nCiY0cA5we18gN3Nl.e2RjISV9.GNm Ud84zMGFaNQmpcYVxY2bNk2UPX0z6fsqzowyOx.fiOR8izNzxNx0i4PrFEaD DwH9nbZkDmeMPBHC7rVl6xAE3WBEBoywagU3PS.x03s045rJc9prtz21B.IS cfTgyuql2KE_PmAOcOkCRZlKnezQg.7u3MFaLEo.rVnRPq6lxvJmaRVcAbJT 6Pd4RBztVQgOHCFiIxpUnYibHE8EHJ1O440stDNHHzYBGZVwg.e2wUHfnsT0 HoE7RT0VWPv4FWwSMqwmWcxeKdh0fibpVWWn7eK1D5ReYjjnAHNzjL4NKkTp VVLTGmtrQgwOnPHqcylpCyy0p7vIBfR75D06WlLdftNyWQvFXUgZH5iwyByw D3c8ln9iHA2VKWG15vXk4jgHL0gNVUFZ8rL8- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- Received: from [10.0.1.3] (kali9putra@99.92.108.194 with xymcookie) by smtp104-mob.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 08 Mar 2012 19:27:35 -0800 PST References:

In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_13274871_AHzHjkQAANPTT1lh0g0n/WDF094 Subject: Re: [lojban] footnotes, etc? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 21:35:58 -0600 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 72.30.238.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Point? You don't use footnotes in spoken anything. In written anything, you use the standard footnote conventions. Loglan long ago (1960) had an array of typesetting cmavo which were soon discarded as totally irrelevant;why bring them back? Sent from my iPad On Mar 8, 2012, at 7:49 PM, ".arpis." wrote: > Are you sure you meant {xo'e}? > > za'a It's an experimental cmavo meaning the same thing as {lo}. > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: >> Huh how coincidental, I was discussing footnotes and endnotes in #lojban >> just a few days ago. >> It seems like there are many ways to do this, some of which use only >> standard lojban, and a few others which require experimental cmavo. I'd >> strongly prefer to see the first variety be used, naturally. >> >> 1) Works only after a sumti. [ko'a nesa'a zo'e pe li xo'e], where xo'e is >> the number of the footnote/endnote. Replacing [zo'e] with something more >> precise would allow for disambiguation in that regard. For "footnote" in >> particular, I'd suggest [ko'a nesa'a lo papri fanmo notci pe li xo'e]. The >> use of [sa'a] is perhaps optional. >> >> 2) Works anywhere. Wrap the following in a to/to'i...toi: [e'u catlu zo'e pe >> li xo'e], where zo'e and xo'e are replaced as in the previous solution. This >> solution is arguably less good than #1, as when using a to...toi, I don't >> think that it's good practice to refer to the surrounding text. Of course, >> using to'i...toi is perhaps better. >> >> 3) Requires a new cmavo and works only after sumti. Let xi'i be a cmavo of >> XI, meaning "see footnote". >> >> 4) Requires a new cmavo and works everywhere. Let mai'a be a cmavo of MAI, >> meaning "see footnote". >> >> 5) Requires a new cmavo, uses nonstandard Lojban, and works everywhere. Let >> xi'i be a cmavo of XI and let XI equate to a free modifier. >> >> These are the solutions that I can think of; there are certainly more. Also, >> [xi'i] and [mai'a] are completely made up, they aren't in jvovlaste or known >> by any lojbanists, unless of course someone else has been using one or the >> other or both for some other purpose, in which case I apologise. >> >> As for the text of the footnotes, there are many possibilities again. Each >> footnote could be individually wrapped in a TO...toi, or the full text of >> the footnotes could be wrapped in a single parenthetical remark. Also, one >> could also simply use [ni'o]...[no'i] for the text of the footnotes. This >> would be more inline with the solutions not involving wrapping the footnote >> number in a parenthetical remark, as I believe that it is bad to refer to >> the contents of a parenthetical remark from within the main text. (IIRC, the >> CLL says not to do so as well.) I suggest using [mai] to mark the number >> being used for the following text until another [mai] is reached. If [mai] >> is already being used in the main text and confusion might result from using >> regular [mai], perhaps the footnotes could all be negative numbers, in order >> to ensure that there's no confusion between a reference to a footnote and a >> reference to another section. Also, if [mai] is being used in a situation >> where the text of a footnote contains a reference to a footnote, it would >> become impossible to use subscripting as suggested below. In that case, I >> would suggest using a zo'u-and-tu'e..tu'u system like so: {i lo papri fanmo >> notci pe li pa xi re zo'u tu'e i li'o tu'u}. Using [ni'o] for each new >> footnote might be a good idea as well, but this makes wrapping the whole >> footnote section in [ni'o]...[no'i] more confusing. >> >> As for footnotes within footnotes, (footnoteception? :P ) it is possible to >> use subscripting to disambiguate, using any of the solutions mentioned >> above, except the solutions involving [mai], as the number preceding [mai] >> cannot be subscripted. [mai] itself may not be subscripted either, unless >> the author adheres to XI-as-a-free-modifier (which is nonstandard Lojban). >> >> i ma se jinvi >> mu'o mi'e la tsani >> >> >> On 8 March 2012 19:34, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>> Hey! .skaryzgik. is back! Hoorah! >>> >>> Regarding your question, I'm pretty sure we have header and footer cmavo, >>> but I don't know what they are nor have the time currently to look them up. >>> Hopefully .xorxes. or Pierre or Robin can provide better information on >>> that. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Marjorie Scherf >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> coi rodo >>>> >>>> So, I've been reading a lot of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series in the >>>> last week or so, which, those if any of you who are familiar with these >>>> books may be aware, are full of footnotes. A little asterisk at the end, or >>>> in the middle, of a sentence, corresponding to one at the bottom of the >>>> page, which explains the thing immediately preceding the one above, or tells >>>> some related story. Sometimes even the footnotes have footnotes. And, since >>>> these books are also reminding me of several things I want to use lojban >>>> for, the various strands of thought tangled together and I wondered how >>>> lojban would accomplish something similar. Would we merely use >>>> parentheticals, or would something else be more appropriate? >>>> >>>> mu'omi'e la .jdakrat.skaryzgik. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.