Received: from mail-we0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:61816) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S5zXi-0001Zn-Je; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:41 -0800 Received: by wera1 with SMTP id a1sf1756862wer.16 for ; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id :date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=DWHyatAkIC0l/1ZgSIh5ZYskvjHdWpaEdFCKqQ0IF6Y=; b=JatNJd0Ak4qrwwYkho87QuI64dM1s84RiYBENofirU4enkQA5GnHTCGIBFSh2CShYw La+48RacP07t4r1qa9t6znkDVQlErsCMfY2286RMRKqYrGj1TD85Lr5vaNjyicG1d/4c daEftKwbzuVWolgDq/Z2BtgEfn0o/j+R9nnyY= Received: by 10.180.105.69 with SMTP id gk5mr415169wib.0.1331298442404; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:22 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.100.40 with SMTP id ev8ls1226365wib.3.canary; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.136.207 with SMTP id w57mr119114wei.12.1331298441519; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.136.207 with SMTP id w57mr119113wei.12.1331298441497; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net. [213.165.64.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id w7si1424799wid.1.2012.03.09.05.07.21; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=213.165.64.22; Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Mar 2012 13:07:21 -0000 Received: from p57A09488.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.33]) [87.160.148.136] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 09 Mar 2012 14:07:21 +0100 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/wKCMHvCTwnDigQLG7PYcwNYFyZURPmk59dVZ5Tx +qpPjMrABmVKax Message-ID: <4F5A0088.9060808@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:07:20 +0100 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] footnotes, etc? References:

In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / {xo'e} for some time now has been used as zo'e ze'ei pa, that is, "an unspecified number". Am 09.03.2012 02:49, schrieb .arpis.: > Are you sure you meant {xo'e}? > > za'a It's an experimental cmavo meaning the same thing as {lo}. > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: >> Huh how coincidental, I was discussing footnotes and endnotes in #lojban >> just a few days ago. >> It seems like there are many ways to do this, some of which use only >> standard lojban, and a few others which require experimental cmavo. I'd >> strongly prefer to see the first variety be used, naturally. >> >> 1) Works only after a sumti. [ko'a nesa'a zo'e pe li xo'e], where xo'e is >> the number of the footnote/endnote. Replacing [zo'e] with something more >> precise would allow for disambiguation in that regard. For "footnote" in >> particular, I'd suggest [ko'a nesa'a lo papri fanmo notci pe li xo'e]. The >> use of [sa'a] is perhaps optional. >> >> 2) Works anywhere. Wrap the following in a to/to'i...toi: [e'u catlu zo'e pe >> li xo'e], where zo'e and xo'e are replaced as in the previous solution. This >> solution is arguably less good than #1, as when using a to...toi, I don't >> think that it's good practice to refer to the surrounding text. Of course, >> using to'i...toi is perhaps better. >> >> 3) Requires a new cmavo and works only after sumti. Let xi'i be a cmavo of >> XI, meaning "see footnote". >> >> 4) Requires a new cmavo and works everywhere. Let mai'a be a cmavo of MAI, >> meaning "see footnote". >> >> 5) Requires a new cmavo, uses nonstandard Lojban, and works everywhere. Let >> xi'i be a cmavo of XI and let XI equate to a free modifier. >> >> These are the solutions that I can think of; there are certainly more. Also, >> [xi'i] and [mai'a] are completely made up, they aren't in jvovlaste or known >> by any lojbanists, unless of course someone else has been using one or the >> other or both for some other purpose, in which case I apologise. >> >> As for the text of the footnotes, there are many possibilities again. Each >> footnote could be individually wrapped in a TO...toi, or the full text of >> the footnotes could be wrapped in a single parenthetical remark. Also, one >> could also simply use [ni'o]...[no'i] for the text of the footnotes. This >> would be more inline with the solutions not involving wrapping the footnote >> number in a parenthetical remark, as I believe that it is bad to refer to >> the contents of a parenthetical remark from within the main text. (IIRC, the >> CLL says not to do so as well.) I suggest using [mai] to mark the number >> being used for the following text until another [mai] is reached. If [mai] >> is already being used in the main text and confusion might result from using >> regular [mai], perhaps the footnotes could all be negative numbers, in order >> to ensure that there's no confusion between a reference to a footnote and a >> reference to another section. Also, if [mai] is being used in a situation >> where the text of a footnote contains a reference to a footnote, it would >> become impossible to use subscripting as suggested below. In that case, I >> would suggest using a zo'u-and-tu'e..tu'u system like so: {i lo papri fanmo >> notci pe li pa xi re zo'u tu'e i li'o tu'u}. Using [ni'o] for each new >> footnote might be a good idea as well, but this makes wrapping the whole >> footnote section in [ni'o]...[no'i] more confusing. >> >> As for footnotes within footnotes, (footnoteception? :P ) it is possible to >> use subscripting to disambiguate, using any of the solutions mentioned >> above, except the solutions involving [mai], as the number preceding [mai] >> cannot be subscripted. [mai] itself may not be subscripted either, unless >> the author adheres to XI-as-a-free-modifier (which is nonstandard Lojban). >> >> i ma se jinvi >> mu'o mi'e la tsani >> >> >> On 8 March 2012 19:34, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> Hey! .skaryzgik. is back! Hoorah! >>> >>> Regarding your question, I'm pretty sure we have header and footer cmavo, >>> but I don't know what they are nor have the time currently to look them up. >>> Hopefully .xorxes. or Pierre or Robin can provide better information on >>> that. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Marjorie Scherf >>> wrote: >>>> coi rodo >>>> >>>> So, I've been reading a lot of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series in the >>>> last week or so, which, those if any of you who are familiar with these >>>> books may be aware, are full of footnotes. A little asterisk at the end, or >>>> in the middle, of a sentence, corresponding to one at the bottom of the >>>> page, which explains the thing immediately preceding the one above, or tells >>>> some related story. Sometimes even the footnotes have footnotes. And, since >>>> these books are also reminding me of several things I want to use lojban >>>> for, the various strands of thought tangled together and I wondered how >>>> lojban would accomplish something similar. Would we merely use >>>> parentheticals, or would something else be more appropriate? >>>> >>>> mu'omi'e la .jdakrat.skaryzgik. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.