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Subject: Re: [lojban] Nasal assimilation
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If we replace np /nb with mp / mb will there be any clashes in existing=20
gismu (of course taking into account that two gismu can't differ in the=20
last vowel etc.) ?

On Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:36:18 PM UTC+4, cntrational wrote:
>
> I'd personally say "imput" in rapid speech, and "gumtree" and
> "camcorder" are more lenient about phonotactics because they're
> compound words. But, yeah, English isn't too strict about it in slower
> speech, though I'd argue that assimilation happens a lot in rapid
> speech. Ask most English speakers to say "He got ten points." rapidly,
> they'll probably say "tem points".
>
> 2012/3/10 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> > On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 7:21 AM, cntrational <cntrational@gmail.com>=20
> wrote:
> >> In most languages, when nasals come before stops, they generally=20
> assimilate
> >> to the stop. So, we don't say "inpossble", we say "impossble" -- /np/=
=20
> is a
> >> cluster that's rare in most languages; it's usually changed to /mp/.
> >> Similarly for /mt/ =E2=86=92 /nt/ and /mk/ =E2=86=92 /=C5=8Bk/. Which =
makes it really weird=20
> that
> >> Lojban *does* allow clusters like /np/. What's up with that? Seems lik=
e=20
> a
> >> pretty glaring omission in the Lojban phonotactic rules, especially
> >> considering how common nasal assimilation is in the world.
> >
> > In English such assimilations don't really happen (cf. "input",
> > "gumtree", "camcorder"). "Impossible" came into English with the
> > assimilation already there. The designers of Lojban were English
> > speakers, not linguists, so Lojban has a strong bias towards English
> > phonotactics, not towards what's common in the world.
> >
> > mu'o mi'e xorxes
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
> Groups "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at=20
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> >
>

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If we replace np /nb with mp / mb will there be any clashes in existing gis=
mu (of course taking into account that two gismu can't differ in the last v=
owel etc.) ?<br><br>On Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:36:18 PM UTC+4, cntration=
al wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: =
0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">I'd personally say "i=
mput" in rapid speech, and "gumtree" and<br>"camcorder" are more lenient ab=
out phonotactics because they're<br>compound words. But, yeah, English isn'=
t too strict about it in slower<br>speech, though I'd argue that assimilati=
on happens a lot in rapid<br>speech. Ask most English speakers to say "He g=
ot ten points." rapidly,<br>they'll probably say "tem points".<p>2012/3/10 =
Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>&gt; On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 7:21 A=
M, cntrational &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cntrational@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">cntrational@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; In most languages, when=
 nasals come before stops, they generally assimilate<br>&gt;&gt; to the sto=
p. So, we don't say "inpossble", we say "impossble" -- /np/ is a<br>&gt;&gt=
; cluster that's rare in most languages; it's usually changed to /mp/.<br>&=
gt;&gt; Similarly for /mt/ =E2=86=92 /nt/ and /mk/ =E2=86=92 /=C5=8Bk/. Whi=
ch makes it really weird that<br>&gt;&gt; Lojban *does* allow clusters like=
 /np/. What's up with that? Seems like a<br>&gt;&gt; pretty glaring omissio=
n in the Lojban phonotactic rules, especially<br>&gt;&gt; considering how c=
ommon nasal assimilation is in the world.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; In English such a=
ssimilations don't really happen (cf. "input",<br>&gt; "gumtree", "camcorde=
r"). "Impossible" came into English with the<br>&gt; assimilation already t=
here. The designers of Lojban were English<br>&gt; speakers, not linguists,=
 so Lojban has a strong bias towards English<br>&gt; phonotactics, not towa=
rds what's common in the world.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; mu'o mi'e xorxes<br>&gt;<br=
>&gt; --<br>&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to th=
e Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>&gt; To post to this group, send email t=
o <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googl=
egroups.com</a>.<br>&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojb=
an+unsubscribe@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>&gt; For more options, visit t=
his group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br>&g=
t;<br></p></blockquote>

<p></p>

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