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[98.139.52.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id e6si5353679pbt.1.2012.03.14.10.12.07; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.52.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.139.52.236; Received: from [98.139.52.196] by nm15.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2012 17:12:07 -0000 Received: from [98.139.52.145] by tm9.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2012 17:12:07 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1028.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2012 17:12:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 683008.643.bm@omp1028.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 73977 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2012 17:12:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: kk6G4lQVM1mc_5F5CMb_6xrUyAGF4FB67.Lwp12yCule63a pvUlX0W7ig7uMi1OCKElFjUaAau25e3crrJ6Efl69T2ftgMTttXDLmd1rd3m HDz2RF1e_sjSG64spr7tDzIReKJ.LUSZ03YKeeyOg8z5hXWq_0kqJRqAME9b sIQjHRIGCU7wvFgsM_N8aWF8iXfQKesTEI8uqnxV6uiMESSHoTkP81CeYDn8 _B8kOp7Og0ni8Gww1nc25cxR0GABZ05YcSqyviazSSaCsy4CqcTKd3n.Dl.f G59YqkUfaSdI3NOVpiEwn3oHzWsMwKMZX4jifkqvYQUkneVdzB2jKMRwvmjM _nM2NhMjBUwu5r9yI4wn8BfIPKhF.6JZfyq5g4suSw9Q5xcsy0AKWRkEXTHZ EG0YsuvZZTFEIhG_AiCr0nD6XltpC7bjpM7HJ9hh3O8WRJKnF.jK.i8..NOF sSgUlvYfbbOTmD5OmaD81W8.1ro91_oOasFkzSx14H_Tu5XJfaeN3XLPzSgN FQe8TU7JflSNbav.OepQT4M8GiXiBEe7mmOuqH58W31S0lBpgfBrc1bHpROC yhA0VbwrHfQ7btaJc5iasyDjAmNEhoLz98uxt.xqJIxrWcBuwVDAL8dBqEvM - X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- Received: from [10.0.1.3] (kali9putra@99.92.108.194 with xymcookie) by smtp119-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2012 10:12:07 -0700 PDT References: <68070A5F-29A8-484A-8986-EA071D176260@switchb.org> In-Reply-To: <68070A5F-29A8-484A-8986-EA071D176260@switchb.org> X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_13404078_AHfHjkQAADqKT2DERAXwzioT54g Subject: Re: [lojban] Playing with Tanru and Fu'ivla... "Philips screwdriver" Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:20:56 -0500 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.52.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / How universal is the notion of a cross for this design? Or is it peculiar = to Western, Christian, usage? Of course, there were crosses beforeChristini= ty and called crosses ( though the Greeks called execution instrument a pos= t), but is something like that the stock name form two intersecting more le= ss a right angles? Sent from my iPad On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Kevin Reid wrote: > On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:42, Escape Landsome wrote: >=20 >>> I would say that {kucylupcartci} is a lujvo that I, knowing that there >>> is an important distinction between phillips and flathead >>> screwdrivers, might interpret correctly. If I wanted to say it, I'd >>> probably go with a tanru: {kruca lupcartci} or {me la .filips. >>> lupcartci} >>=20 >> But "Philips" screwdriver is an english-speaking way to call this kind o= f tool. >>=20 >> In France, it is "cruciforme" screwdriver, that is : "in the shape of a = cross". >>=20 >> Thus, the way we lojbanize it, it is not culturally neutral *at all* >=20 > "Phillips" is not simply a synonym for "cross-shaped". There are several = different cross-shaped screw drives, some of which superficially resemble e= ach other but may be damaged if confused: >=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Cruciform_types >=20 > More broadly, specific screw drive designs are inherently (technical-)cul= ture-specific items. >=20 > I believe the appropriate Lojbanization is to use a fu'ivla for the Phill= ips type in particular, and have words which are specifically vague for cro= ss-shaped screw drives in general. >=20 > --=20 > Kevin Reid >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.