Received: from mail-we0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:57022) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S8CSb-00033i-VQ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:33 -0700 Received: by wera1 with SMTP id a1sf2770417wer.16 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=qlq2Tzfbk7MM9XksgE0Cgq0GHq4HIXhjijt9OJmasDk=; b=YJ25wonowKC3H6MzRgNGPMyW/cmAgudwrpgr9vKsgqoGe8VKAq0g/2fes7iO/b/0sB g3ZXd+tiXwdOOA38BYwtCZ4ZZY17tWwlWo8rRM+pHQ5gb4OBY94VSW2fxayOJr9zbVSC wBHck1EQtvJNfPcxPdjPEeMR7mnc+p4gjEPHo= Received: by 10.180.84.132 with SMTP id z4mr1448374wiy.2.1331824754761; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.149.6 with SMTP id w6ls1264631eej.9.gmail; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.129.15 with SMTP id m15mr750475bks.2.1331824753642; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.129.15 with SMTP id m15mr750474bks.2.1331824753626; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-f51.google.com (mail-bk0-f51.google.com [209.85.214.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o5si2756940bkz.0.2012.03.15.08.19.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.51; Received: by mail-bk0-f51.google.com with SMTP id j10so2327479bkw.10 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.128.152 with SMTP id k24mr2533434bks.127.1331824753491; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.119.4 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1238c2a6-9582-4fd1-adb7-c122292ffb2e@cj6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:19:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Rhetoric and Oratory, "the fruit of Arabic" From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Okay, I give up. How did you get that from the original English, Muhammad? Or did Buroq send you the Arabic version in private email? (or perhaps it appeared in a separate thread that I haven't read yet). --gejyspa On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Muhammad an-Nuqrashi wrote: >> coi >> Young people, >> =A0Rhetoric: the using of all grammars in speech, even if it optional, >> almost, "you can stand on the logic" >> =A0Eloquence: to use the most appropriate synonym in every place in >> speech. >> The =A0both is the magnificence of speech and remove the ambiguity for >> the listener completely. >> =A0This is advisable for the speakers to lojban. > > > Welcome, > Youth, > To speak rhetorically is to use the grammar and vocabulary of the languag= e > to the full extent; you don't only choose the fastest way to say somethin= g > that could be clearer when said in longer phrases, and you don't do the > opposite when ambiguity is=A0negligible enough for human readers. You > "overcome" logic by using the "invisible logic," aka common-sense and > relying on that the reader should have it. > It isn't advisable to cherish brevity over clearness. Mega-words that hav= e > many meanings of one concept in a language like Lojban (relying on lujvo'= s > for other meanings) are usually a bad idea as most people tend to hold > themselves onto what the dictionary offers. > This is advisable for Lojban speakers. > > And I'm out for today! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.