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[72.30.239.128]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id e1si2211119qcw.2.2012.03.16.08.58.06; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 72.30.239.128 as permitted sender) client-ip=72.30.239.128; Received: from [98.139.215.141] by nm40.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2012 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.213] by tm12.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2012 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1022.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2012 15:58:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 355318.91953.bm@omp1022.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 14584 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2012 15:58:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 68UkcC8VM1nSI6pchj03XSxcnTeCM.V50lgAbGYaAhmp4cU ZpzzbAQFvsS6ZAbIcu7L7pMXdi.G4E6r99GAuW2ZIuP2zBkeXesCe_L9JFdW YVd1XrSypvwmEy3oK42z_Nt.pBKoYNoz.pUEBYQX7UeKaWBlDWHDsSV4Wi4C nSzMHT.YgScYDYeDoDVCTcaoTQhPU5VVnRN8ghJw.g48F34KzewyqmRmk7zW VFNJy6Ik_PtcaCar93vFFShUBsdBp.0PZauKluNgtjkmjOMGH1nuEsjgm7R9 mr4C5r5XX_pa3qKPNnuNoso.K3T8eN6q6Ma32pDi3bcgJP0.WzPXo5WioDz8 9MhNjsaKEo5ugFqc0cs3KD5SFDIfXKb_TgWYF5u4rKeqKbmu7o1t7tqoYcxv Rrh3LguJKUkVIVveDyRO7A3Rnb_Vr0_6rIZzWqurOzwqnuaQkK6uXAefN1tB kHBboNxLtC3phcp1MLbJv1vTxdTwWF6bYhuWrB2w4Dv7dfCpRuLg_Uvt9vRJ 9Uo0WSKS58NOrhjxuzGIwhjh8r6cJupk- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- Received: from [10.0.1.3] (kali9putra@99.92.108.194 with xymcookie) by smtp106-mob.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2012 08:58:05 -0700 PDT References: <1238c2a6-9582-4fd1-adb7-c122292ffb2e@cj6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <1331852702.89095.YahooMailNeo@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <13C5A7CE-28CC-4FDE-938B-5C777CBC0EDF@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <63F088B5-13F1-4F12-A4A6-C5BDE6EDC727@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_13431546_AHjHjkQAALchT2M1CALbjyMFEFc Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Rhetoric and Oratory, "the fruit of Arabic" Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:07:00 -0500 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 72.30.239.128 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--727978914 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --Apple-Mail-2--727978914 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "or" in English (and logic, where we are supposed to be) is <1110>. It's a= pparent use for niff/xor, <0110> is determined pragmatically by the elimina= tion of the <11> line in context. Sent from my iPad On Mar 16, 2012, at 7:41 AM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > "Or" is not often ambiguous in context.=20 >=20 > stevo >=20 > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Jonathan Jones wrot= e: > "or" in English (not logic) is ambiguous as to whether it means .a or .on= ai., so it doesn't count. >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:12 PM, John E. Clifford = wrote: > Speaking as a logician and thus a sort of mathematician, I note that "or"= is shorter. XOR is, of course, xor. >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Mar 15, 2012, at 7:04 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >=20 >> I like to distinguish between xor and and/or, because English is ambiguo= us as to which is meant. "a/o" is just the shortest possible way to say .a >>=20 >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM, MorphemeAddict wrot= e: >> Oh. Of course. >>=20 >> stevo >>=20 >>=20 >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 7:05 PM, John E Clifford = wrote: >> andor, i.e. or >>=20 >> From: MorphemeAddict >> To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20 >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Rhetoric and Oratory, "the fruit of Arabic" >>=20 >> What does "a/o" mean? From the context it seems to mean 'in or about'. G= oogling didn't help.=20 >>=20 >> stevo >>=20 >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Jonathan Jones wrot= e: >> I really wish buroq would just stick to Arabic a/o Lojban. I can never u= nderstand his English. I'm betting Google Translate used on his Arabic woul= d even give better English, and that's saying something. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Muhammad an-Nuqrashi wrote: >> Buroq usually omitted the 'be' copula in many places where in Arabic a '= be' verb/copula isn't needed... This goes on true with adjectives, placemen= t and presence of the/a, etc... I basically took the meanings of his words = and put them in Arabic ignoring the syntax and grammar he used... I ended u= p with a pretty understandable Arabic piece and I added some bits of my own= after translation... >>=20 >> MN >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>=20 >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>=20 >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >=20 > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --Apple-Mail-2--727978914 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
"or" in English (and logic, where we a= re supposed to be) is <1110>.  It's apparent use for niff/xor, &= lt;0110> is determined pragmatically by the elimination of the <11>= ; line in context.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 16, 2012, = at 7:41 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw= @gmail.com> wrote:

"Or" is not often ambiguous in context. 

stev= o

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Jonat= han Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
"or" in English (not logic) is ambiguous as = to whether it means .a or .onai., so it doesn't count.


On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 a= t 8:12 PM, John E. Clifford <ka= li9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Speaking as a = logician and thus a sort of mathematician, I note that "or" is shorter. &nb= sp;XOR is, of course, xor.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 15, 20= 12, at 7:04 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

I like to distinguish between xor and = and/or, because English is ambiguous as to which is meant. "a/o" is just th= e shortest possible way to say .a

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytl= esw@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh. Of course.

stevo
=


On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at = 7:05 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.c= om> wrote:
andor, i.e. or


From: MorphemeAddict <<= a href=3D"mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">= lytlesw@gmail.com>
To: = lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2= 012 5:21 PM
Subject: Re:= [lojban] Re: Rhetoric and Oratory, "the fruit of Arabic"

What does "a/o" mean? From the context it seems to mean 'in or about'.= Googling didn't help. 

stevo

On Thu, M= ar 15, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
I really wish buroq would just stick to Arabic a/o Lojban. I can n= ever understand his English. I'm betting Google Translate used on his Arabi= c would even give better English, and that's saying something.


On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Muhammad an-Nuqrashi <= ;muhammad.nael@gmail.com> wrote:
Buroq usually omitted the 'be' copula in many pl= aces where in Arabic a 'be' verb/copula isn't needed... This goes on true w= ith adjectives, placement and presence of the/a, etc... I basically&nb= sp;took the meanings of his words and put them in Arabic ignoring the synta= x and grammar he used... I ended up with a pretty understandable Arabic pie= ce and I added some bits of my own after translation...

MN
=
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-= -
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i = doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father.= :D )

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.

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--
= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.lu= k. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .

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--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .

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