Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:49797) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S9KQ9-0007yo-3U; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:38 -0700 Received: by dacx6 with SMTP id x6sf8478426dac.16 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wL7Y3+blkUvqyBDyu+oua9wrKaQfXyBeqVS+WQnqUKI=; b=1gc0uhmiTVQMlvXSzj6+dUjTwyiuA3twRmdxqdPgASKP1SSRiJ3bNdqloEbUP5XJs5 3KQZjKpILrupTxLfKiVWCb/neH51IFatBcRB6fYP2YMLUBg5hYV0GjZhdn3MCFNsaV2w yLt+sKsoK6Rqeu2rnNCl/G1S9PFX9dolCMXM0= Received: by 10.236.190.37 with SMTP id d25mr1391873yhn.7.1332093683737; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.16.39 with SMTP id g27ls8339999yhg.9.gmail; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.187.3 with SMTP id x3mr1378074yhm.18.1332093683106; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by g16g2000yqe.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <6eda65e1-8635-4aae-ae3c-3ae17d3f1310@g16g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Specific terminology - the case of philosophy terminology From: iesk To: lojban X-Original-Sender: pa.fae@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pa.fae@gmx.de designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pa.fae@gmx.de; dkim=pass header.i=@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Mar 18, 6:15=C2=A0pm, Escape Landsome wrote: > I want to translate some philosophical works into Lojban May I ask which ones? > but here comes the problem of terminology > > Many philosophical terms come in fact from vernacular usage, but are > given in the meantime a new meaning... =E2=80=A6 which is, more often than not, not universally agreed upon among philosophers. > > For instance, "libert=C3=A9" (liberty ? freedom ?) has not quite the same > sense that the vernacular use of the word has Nevertheless, the meaning which the word takes in the context of a particular philosophical work is =E2=80=98carved=E2=80=98 from its vernacul= ar usage; however esoteric the particular author=E2=80=99s take on =E2=80=98libert=C3= =A9=E2=80=99 (or whatever)=E2=80=94by using that particular word the philosopher alludes to = its common-sense meaning (which the philosopher can then contort). > > In fact, either a philosophical term comes form a greek or latin > etymology and the translation should convey the component meaning of > its core and affixes > either it is some very common term that has been "dignified" to a > brand new philosophical meaning In many cases those Greek or Latin terms were more or less ordinary words when they became part of the philosophical discourse. In other cases, granted, they are purposely coined neologisms. And often, they are themselves translations (eg =E2=80=98substance=E2=80=98 is, if I rememb= er correctly, a rather liberal translation of the corresponding Greek term [which I don=E2=80=99=C5=A7 remember]). > So, I warn you, I don't know what termes already exist in Lojban, for > philosophic purpose... (and I regret there doesn't seem to exist a > page which lists such terms, by themas or something) Cf. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Vocabulary (to which your philosophical terminology could be added?). > But, admitting there are few (correct me if I'm wrong), how to create the= m ? I think it is a challenge that Lojban words are not exactly cognate to natlang terms. It might be interesting to investigate a translation of a philosophical work into a genuinely =E2=80=98foreign=E2=80=98 language an= d see how the translator delt with the terminology. Like, I don=E2=80=99t know, in a Korean translation of Spinoza, where translator, supposedly, could not simply =E2=80=98copy=E2=80=98 etymologically. Not that this would be a helpful answer =E2=80=A6 :/ -iesk --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.