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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Specific terminology - the case of philosophy terminology
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:18:05 -0500
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Back in the day, at least, Logjam had an excessively (positivistic) philoso=
phical vocabulary.  Much of this has been ground down in use to be totally =
vernacular.  However, all the raw material for creating the technical vocab=
ulary of arrange philosophical systems is still available.  Probably it wou=
ld be best to pay less attention to the vulgar term recycled in philosophy =
(and often mislead readers to think they understand or to understand wrongl=
y) than to the actual intended meanings (though that louses up many famous =
arguments).  Thus the route to meaningful translation is through lujvo for =
the most part. As noted, solving how to translate a word from one author ma=
y not help much with the same word in the next author.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 18, 2012, at 1:01 PM, iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de> wrote:

> On Mar 18, 6:15 pm, Escape Landsome <escaa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I want to translate some philosophical works into Lojban
>=20
> May I ask which ones?
>=20
>=20
>> but here comes the problem of terminology
>>=20
>> Many philosophical terms come in fact from vernacular usage, but are
>> given in the meantime a new meaning...
>=20
> =E2=80=A6 which is, more often than not, not universally agreed upon amon=
g
> philosophers.
>=20
>>=20
>> For instance, "libert=C3=A9" (liberty ? freedom ?) has not quite the sam=
e
>> sense that the vernacular use of the word has
>=20
> Nevertheless, the meaning which the word takes in the context of a
> particular philosophical work is =E2=80=98carved=E2=80=98 from its vernac=
ular usage;
> however esoteric the particular author=E2=80=99s take on =E2=80=98libert=
=C3=A9=E2=80=99 (or
> whatever)=E2=80=94by using that particular word the philosopher alludes t=
o its
> common-sense meaning (which the philosopher can then contort).
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> In fact, either a philosophical term comes form a greek or latin
>> etymology and the translation should convey the component meaning of
>> its core and affixes
>> either it is some very common term that has been "dignified" to a
>> brand new philosophical meaning
>=20
> In many cases those Greek or Latin terms were more or less ordinary
> words when they became part of the philosophical discourse. In other
> cases, granted, they are purposely coined neologisms. And often, they
> are themselves translations (eg =E2=80=98substance=E2=80=98 is, if I reme=
mber
> correctly, a rather liberal translation of the corresponding Greek
> term [which I don=E2=80=99=C5=A7 remember]).
>=20
>=20
>> So, I warn you, I don't know what termes already exist in Lojban, for
>> philosophic purpose... (and I regret there doesn't seem to exist a
>> page which lists such terms, by themas or something)
>=20
> Cf. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Vocabulary (to which your philosophical
> terminology could be added?).
>=20
>=20
>> But, admitting there are few (correct me if I'm wrong), how to create th=
em ?
>=20
> I think it is a challenge that Lojban words are not exactly cognate to
> natlang terms. It might be interesting to investigate a translation of
> a philosophical work into a genuinely =E2=80=98foreign=E2=80=98 language =
and see how
> the translator delt with the terminology. Like, I don=E2=80=99t know, in =
a
> Korean translation of Spinoza, where translator, supposedly, could not
> simply =E2=80=98copy=E2=80=98 etymologically.
>=20
> Not that this would be a helpful answer =E2=80=A6 :/
>=20
> -iesk
>=20
> --=20
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>=20

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