Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:58627)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCOO27LuODBCk2KP7BBoE1So89g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SA5uv-0004L8-Az; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:44:38 -0700
Received: by pbcwz17 with SMTP id wz17sf287839pbc.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:44:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent
         :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=j1ntZFnQ+h9/NNDJx0TErRbqX0qCXMTEOnHO5WhtzuU=;
        b=vMCbV4qLL1R8ofDDblkAxK1ehRyZtnOnt1GtWn8gTchHlUy2h3foFCrvti1jO6Se24
         aHMMgP/O0XzGyjPhVRdcQjpl9VPBUz1OTZIbnvuG0D6WxQ47ldqqWv7/eeh8E2MGpPXV
         JXsDhnhtkqpTx35fwsTCqMSJR0z4DRMee3NYM=
Received: by 10.52.94.100 with SMTP id db4mr295658vdb.10.1332276260129;
        Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:44:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.52.89.227 with SMTP id br3ls213720vdb.9.gmail; Tue, 20 Mar
 2012 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.52.22.3 with SMTP id z3mr304312vde.2.1332276258734; Tue, 20
 Mar 2012 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:44:18
 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAGO2uONYqRywF5o4YYbtw2h6mhLek1qei9_j=gPBpqLvg0R6yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGO2uONCukO1hA_uRM3CHwe8ddfgXRfR30awWfwvpNsB+ABOVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6eda65e1-8635-4aae-ae3c-3ae17d3f1310@g16g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
 <CAGO2uOODGendEaWaK1NRETL_xg5HXWDO++Y8Vc5XGuGBBCZXmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <10bc6439-7981-4ed3-a847-2f93dac0ea99@k6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> <CAGO2uONYqRywF5o4YYbtw2h6mhLek1qei9_j=gPBpqLvg0R6yg@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; fr-ca;
 SonyEricssonMK16i Build/4.0.2.A.0.58) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko)
 Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1,gzip(gfe)
Message-ID: <2774fa2f-cd54-488d-8628-73e97126459c@i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Specific terminology - the case of philosophy terminology
From: iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: pa.fae@gmx.de
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain
 of pa.fae@gmx.de designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pa.fae@gmx.de;
 dkim=pass header.i=@gmx.de
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

Sorry, either you throw some things together here, or I just don't get
it. Yes, the 'causa sui' reasoning is, well, kind of a trick. But why
would you need to specify that it is *Spinoza's* God when you're
translating him (as opposed to: commenting on his book)? He gives all
the definitions himself, explicitly, which you can translate. Neither
as a translator, nor as a Lojbanic reader would you have to accept
them.

Or are you saying that one cannot translate elaborate tautologies into
Lojban?

(By the way I would not know what a standard meaning of 'God' would
be. In fact, I am regularly confused when someone uses that word in
conversation. Doesn't happen that often, though.)

-iesk

On Mar 20, 8:24=A0pm, Escape Landsome <escaa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The difficulty with Spinoza is that he coins most of his syllogisms
> from the fact he gives very specific meaning to the terms he uses
> (e.g. God, which is the "causa sui", or the one thing that needs
> nothing else than its "essence" to exist).
>
> Well, so the conclusion is =A0* either the terms are "of course" those
> whith the associated meanings, --- and then all the book is a big (not
> even necessarily convincing) tautology
>
> * or the terms don't come so handy, and you take for granted God (for
> instance) can refer to a great number of different things, but then
> --- how to explain it is SOME PARTICULAR meaning that is intended in
> Spinoza's works ?
>
> Perhaps saying "lo cevni la spinozas" would suffice ??

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.