Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:61658) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SAvdP-0001xQ-8X; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:57:56 -0700 Received: by vcbfo11 with SMTP id fo11sf3570037vcb.16 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:57:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=V1D2CYV0UqZ5jmSZhMzLjJEdYLpkFxp5Y3Vv2Svk+Og=; b=WXSLK67R8KGMNbXMHhdD72v3YlbnR93Ub4HuKDowuOT5EOmRieGxGMJ1B+BBWOxmIu 9/ezKMFKhFsmysNL9uJGOfaR4GrGfrsyHN7PneZwoAwhXzVqUUtWBf+d7cJXrI3Q2slj xL5ApIRtoCdE1MZ2qbH9LQpncCnV3IR0NrLl8= Received: by 10.52.71.18 with SMTP id q18mr1334506vdu.14.1332474583569; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.225.193 with SMTP id it1ls36061vcb.5.gmail; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.179.135 with SMTP id dg7mr7647546vdc.6.1332474581966; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.179.135 with SMTP id dg7mr7647545vdc.6.1332474581949; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f171.google.com (mail-vx0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p9si2194467vdv.0.2012.03.22.20.49.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.171; Received: by vcbfl15 with SMTP id fl15so5730020vcb.16 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.64.234 with SMTP id r10mr4068527vds.39.1332474581815; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.30.97 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:49:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <29003828.512.1332467486180.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbhy1> From: Jacob Errington Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:49:21 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Have you guys heard of eSpeak? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307ac7751f102804bbe0ea4b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --20cf307ac7751f102804bbe0ea4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Only words beginning with vowels, that aren't cmevla (which require pauses on both sides) require a pre-stop. [.i] requires a pause because it is vowel-initial. [ni'o] does not; it is consonant-initial. [.djeikyb.] requires two pauses, one before, one after; it is a cmevla. (of course, that's if you adhere to dotside. If not, you can omit the pre-stop under certain circumstances: the word is preceded by [la] or [doi], which under non-dotside are forbidden to appear in the cmevla itself.) By "pause", please understand that it's not necessarily the complete stopping of sound production. The "glottal stop" and the "no sound" sounds are valid for [.] in Lojban, and therefore [.] may have a sound. If you're a fervent believer in audio-visual isomorphism, which according to some is already false for Lojban, you should write the period everywhere it would be spoken. If you're lazy, you can omit the period in all places where it may be unambiguously inferred: before a vowel-initial word and after a consonant-final word. It cannot be unambiguously inferred that there is a pause before a consonant-final word. In particular, the " " character can be a pause as well as it may not be, therefore in [la djeisyn], there are two interpretations: the sumti [la .djeisyn.] and the name [ladjeisyn]. Therefore, it is best to always begin cmevla with a pause, no matter the circumstances. Of course, if you're all-around lazy like me, you can just never write the pauses: no one will try to kill you (at least I hope). mu'o mi'e la tsani On 22 March 2012 23:02, Jonathan Jones wrote: > There is no stop in {ni'o}. If there were a stop, there would be a ".". > > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:51 PM, RexScientiarum wrote: > >> I downloaded eSpeak when I learned it did text to speech for lojban. It >> seems nearly flawless (to me, but I am just learning), the only thing I can >> tell is wrong with it is that it doesn't put a stop in at {ni'o}... still >> it does with {.i}. I assumed everyone knew about it but I haven't seen it >> mentioned anywhere so I thought I'd mention it. Is >> its pronunciation accurate? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/QHSarDiuih4J. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf307ac7751f102804bbe0ea4b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Only words beginning with vowels, that aren't cmevla (which require pau= ses on both sides) require a pre-stop.
[.i] requires a pause because it= is vowel-initial.
[ni'o] does not; it is consonant-initial.<= /div>
[.djeikyb.] requires two pauses, one before, one after; it is a cmevla= . (of course, that's if you adhere to dotside. If not, you can omit the= pre-stop under certain circumstances: the word is preceded by [la] or [doi= ], which under non-dotside are forbidden to appear in the cmevla itself.)

By "pause", please understand that it's n= ot necessarily the complete stopping of sound production. The "glottal= stop" and the "no sound" sounds are valid for [.] in Lojban= , and therefore [.] may have a sound.

If you're a fervent believer in audio-visual isomor= phism, which according to some is already false for Lojban, you should writ= e the period everywhere it would be spoken. If you're lazy, you can omi= t the period in all places where it may be unambiguously inferred: before a= vowel-initial word and after a consonant-final word. It cannot be unambigu= ously inferred that there is a pause before a consonant-final word. In part= icular, the " " character can be a pause as well as it may not be= , therefore in [la djeisyn], there are two interpretations: the sumti [la .= djeisyn.] and the name [ladjeisyn]. Therefore, it is best to always begin c= mevla with a pause, no matter the circumstances.

Of course, if you're all-around lazy like me, you c= an just never write the pauses: no one will try to kill you (at least I hop= e).

mu'o mi'e la tsani

On 22 March 2012 23:02, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
There is no stop in {ni'o}. If there were a stop, there would be a &quo= t;.".


On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:51 PM, RexScientiarum <amt2839@gmail.c= om> wrote:
I downloaded eSpeak when I learned it did te= xt to speech for lojban. =A0It seems nearly flawless (to me, but I am just = learning), the only thing I can tell is wrong with it is that it doesn'= t put a stop in at {ni'o}... still it does with {.i}. =A0I assumed ever= yone knew about it but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere so I though= t I'd mention it. =A0Is its=A0pronunciation=A0accurate?

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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/QHSarDiuih4J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 9;o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


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