On Fr= i, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

Er.. I know that, and I've already read = the case against LA. Also, I did mention it in my post:
that's if you adhere to dotside. If not, you can omit the pre-= stop under certain circumstances: the word is preceded by [la] or [doi], wh= ich under non-dotside are forbidden to appear in the cmevla itself.= =A0

Dotside is great. Forbidding certain syllables is kind of silly, = just to save a pause.

mu'o mi'e la tsani n= oi ca'edai co'a morsi zo'o

On 23 March 2012 02:08, Jonathan Jones <= span dir=3D"ltr"><eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Mar = 22, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> w= rote:

Only words beginning with vowels, that aren't cmevla (which require pau= ses on both sides) require a pre-stop.
[.i] requires a pause because it= is vowel-initial.
[ni'o] does not; it is consonant-initial.<= /div>
[.djeikyb.] requires two pauses, one before, one after; it is a cmevla= . (of course, that's if you adhere to dotside. If not, you can omit the= pre-stop under certain circumstances: the word is preceded by [la] or [doi= ], which under non-dotside are forbidden to appear in the cmevla itself.)

By "pause", please understand that it's n= ot necessarily the complete stopping of sound production. The "glottal= stop" and the "no sound" sounds are valid for [.] in Lojban= , and therefore [.] may have a sound.

If you're a fervent believer in audio-visual isomor= phism, which according to some is already false for Lojban, you should writ= e the period everywhere it would be spoken. If you're lazy, you can omi= t the period in all places where it may be unambiguously inferred: before a= vowel-initial word and after a consonant-final word. It cannot be unambigu= ously inferred that there is a pause before a consonant-final word. In part= icular, the " " character can be a pause as well as it may not be= , therefore in [la djeisyn], there are two interpretations: the sumti [la .= djeisyn.] and the name [ladjeisyn]. Therefore, it is best to always begin c= mevla with a pause, no matter the circumstances.

One of the very few advantages of not using Dot= -Side is that {la djeisyn} can only be the sumti {la.djeisyn.}. The differe= nce between Dot-Side and not side is simply that in Dot-Side all names must= begin with denpabu (".") as well as end with it, but "la&qu= ot;, "lai", and "doi" are allowed within names, whereas= in nonDS, consonant-beginning names do not require a leading denpabu /when= preceded by those cmavo/ (they are required at all other times, however, s= uch as in {mi'e.kritcan.} or {coi.kristcan.}), but the aforementioned s= yllables are /not/ allowed within the name.

The reason behind the Dot-Side proposal, BTW, is that absolutely no jbo= pre have been able to follow the nonDS prohibited syllable rule- everyone a= t least once has accidentally used one of those syllables, usually "la= ", in a name.

Simply put, Dot-Side came around because completely forbidding those sy= llables in a name- a rule we can't even apparently follow anyway- doesn= 't seem worth the minor advantage of not needing to pause between the n= ame and three cmavo, especially when one of those cmavo is a very common sy= llable in names.

If anyone's interested in the full argument regarding Dot-Side, you= can read the proposal that started the whole Dot-Side thing here: http:= //www.lojban.org/tiki/The+Case+Against+LA
=A0

Of course, if you're all-around lazy like me, you can j= ust never write the pauses: no one will try to kill you (at least I hope).<= /div>

mu'o mi'e la tsani

On 22 March 2012 23:02, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> w= rote:
There is no stop in {ni'o}. If there were a stop, there would be a &quo= t;.".

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012= at 7:51 PM, RexScientiarum <amt2839@gmail.com> wrote:

I downloaded eSpeak when I learned it did te= xt to speech for lojban. =A0It seems nearly flawless (to me, but I am just = learning), the only thing I can tell is wrong with it is that it doesn'= t put a stop in at {ni'o}... still it does with {.i}. =A0I assumed ever= yone knew about it but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere so I though= t I'd mention it. =A0Is its=A0pronunciation=A0accurate?
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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai k= o cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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=
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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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