Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:54642) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SEysP-0006yN-Nm; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:14:08 -0700 Received: by yenm3 with SMTP id m3sf3721923yen.16 for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=4MYhD22kHHHCYyBF4VQKZzAAMUwUuyS9wrNZzWbbKkA=; b=AVeQ1c2wKXGPjMEAXSsq9s3/kKVfjMz2gb9F6QfQkhV8ja29zhWuvbgJvvyYe43g0f 52vI38fBVspDdMkPaOa50LY+vbzx2wZZ08Ko6tM5tgK3sf0LZJyEI5qFybz4bWnIT+ha Kt6lI25+Q7BjflpgUwaYDoZQoFm3SsebBTKEo= Received: by 10.50.94.129 with SMTP id dc1mr1985941igb.2.1333440828049; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.87.170 with SMTP id az10ls8898673igb.4.gmail; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.88.166 with SMTP id bh6mr613926igb.3.1333440826897; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.88.166 with SMTP id bh6mr613925igb.3.1333440826888; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f178.google.com (mail-iy0-f178.google.com [209.85.210.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id em8si3633033igc.2.2012.04.03.01.13.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.178; Received: by mail-iy0-f178.google.com with SMTP id l21so6970835iak.37 for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.188.199 with SMTP id gc7mr8048389igc.40.1333440826609; Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.18.113 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2012 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:13:46 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] The trouble with color-names, taste-names, smell-names, and perception categorisation in general From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / The trouble with color-names, taste-names, smell-names, and such is that each gismu space that can be attributed to span them seems somewhat arbitrary. Even in the sense that human beings won't share the same space as other animals or artificial devices (robots, etc) This is indeed of problem of splitting one big semantic space into parts. This has even to do with categorization in general, on a cognitive level. Suppose sombedoy sees a red Ferrari car that rides fast He will say "the red Ferrari car rides fast" But what does he perceives ? Surely something like that : { object-perceived : item, objet-color : RGB(100%, 5%, 5%), color-context : greenish-around, object-speed : 200mph, object-shape : car, animated : yes-but-artificial(driven) } Now : THIS is "red" { object-perceived : item, objet-color : RGB(100%, 5%, 5%), color-context : greenish-around } THIS is "car" { object-shape : car, animated : yes-but-artificial(driven) } THIS is "Ferrari" { objet-color : RGB(100%, 5%, 5%), object-shape : car } THIS is "rides" { object-speed : 200mph, object-shape : car, animated : yes-but-artificial(driven) } THIS is "fast" { object-speed : 200mph } --- So the sentence is an "intrication" of what is perceived. But how should the gismu space divided is still a little arbitrary. AT LEAST, we can see that the gismu tend to overlap each other ==> so it is not necessarily bad that there be some redundancy in the gismu space -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.