Received: from mail-fa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]:55420) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SMiiv-0001Bd-08; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:25 -0700 Received: by faaa5 with SMTP id a5sf143730faa.16 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/cqAz1lk83MxseTfUPt8zxyQfRGskAXnSnGIU/eOH0w=; b=n50Fa/wqRuD7ZomqjvPS4PFvBRQGqcS+Nix3sDbhZRN47QFCk1t1D77vjZa0FU6HVH Qhlx+E013HweluXaD4EVuVOW9JpAzM1lPGrW8+IucVh6YHqiwweD7AcstVo8hdlcGfwP plFaJB3UXWcyaQBV/gbmGvTqGkNU2rKPVAfnE= Received: by 10.204.129.13 with SMTP id m13mr1367500bks.10.1335285369209; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.133.217 with SMTP id g25ls2932992bkt.6.gmail; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.123.140 with SMTP id gk12mr1241890bkc.1.1335285367676; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.123.140 with SMTP id gk12mr1241889bkc.1.1335285367648; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f45.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f45.google.com [209.85.215.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cs9si22606050bkb.3.2012.04.24.09.36.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.45; Received: by mail-lpp01m010-f45.google.com with SMTP id e6so721400lah.4 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.103.169 with SMTP id fx9mr8544546lab.37.1335285367384; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.106.39 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:35:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3713959.1175.1335276119163.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15> References: <3713959.1175.1335276119163.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:35:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Rafybri and 4 new rafsi. Suggestion for a new agglutinative style in Lojban To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04088cc9ff29f504be6f5974 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04088cc9ff29f504be6f5974 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:01 AM, gleki wrote: > At first I must say that I'm not a member of any language-developing > committee (BPFK or anything). > And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be > enriched. > Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaking real Lojban. > Everything here should be marked as exclusively experimental and (.a'o) as > the source for further consideration. > None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed. > All of the rafsi are baselined. Creating new ones is therefore a change to the baseline. stevo > > *Rafybri* > * > * > I always noticed how lujvo break the transparent logic of bridi. > Let's look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}. > Although it's much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then "descend" (in > English they differ in sounding considerably) > nobody can guess that {nitkla} means "descend" and doesn't mean "go in a > lower position under something" without getting the translation beforehand. > > Although anybody is free to say "klama lo cnita" instead > it will lead to lengthier speech. > > What I suggest is to glue bridi together into a new form of lujvo called > "rafybri". > That's how it works. > 1. First rule > > 4 new rafsi > zve <= be fe lo > zvi <= be fi lo > zvo <= be fo lo > zvu <= be fu lo > and > jve (fifth rafsi) > > When composing rafybri you replace gismu with rafsi and "be fe lo" etc. > with new rafsi of ZVE series. > > 2. cmavo attached to rafsi don't lead to the emergence of a new meaning. > Therefore selpa'i is a synonym for "se prami" (actually the second rule is > not a new rule at all). > > Applying this rule we can dramatically compress the length of lojbanic > jufra. > And if we replace cnita with dizlo in our example we can save even two > syllables. > klama lo cnita = klama lo dizlo = kla+zve+dzi = klazvedzi > > blanu je crino = blajveri'o. In this case I refer to {blajveri'o} as to a > synonym of {blanu je crino} (blue-green). I suggest that no new meaning is > added here. > > In other words rafybri can be constructed from tanru only if the latter > have logical operators > ("pelnimre tricu" can't be compressed into rafybri). > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/kgWQbXt6Q-QJ. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d04088cc9ff29f504be6f5974 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Apr 2= 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
At first I must say that I'm not a = member of any language-developing committee (BPFK or anything).
And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be enri= ched.
Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaki= ng real Lojban.
Everything here should be marked as exclusively e= xperimental and (.a'o) as the source for further consideration.
None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.
<= /blockquote>

All of the rafsi are baselined. Creating ne= w ones is therefore a change to the baseline.=A0

stevo=A0

Rafybri=

I always noticed how lujvo break the t= ransparent logic of bridi.
Let's look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}.
Alt= hough it's much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then "descend"= ; (in English they differ in sounding considerably)
nobody can gu= ess that {nitkla} means "descend" and doesn't mean "go i= n a lower position under something" without getting the translation be= forehand.

Although anybody is free to say "klama lo cnita&qu= ot; instead
it will lead to lengthier speech.

What I suggest is to glue bridi together into a new form of lujvo cal= led "rafybri".
That's how it works.=A0
1. First rule
4 new rafsi
zve <=3D be fe lo
zvi <=3D be fi lo=A0
zvo <= ;=3D be fo lo=A0
zvu <=3D be fu lo=A0
and=A0
jve (fifth rafsi)
When composing rafybri you replace gismu with rafsi a= nd "be fe lo" etc. with new rafsi of ZVE series.
2. cmavo attached to rafsi don't lead to the emergence of a = new meaning. Therefore selpa'i =A0is a synonym for "se prami"= (actually the second rule is not a new rule at all).

Applying this rule we can dramatically compress the length of lojbanic= jufra.
And if we replace cnita with dizlo in our example we can = save even two syllables.
klama lo cnita =3D klama lo dizlo =3D kl= a+zve+dzi =3D klazvedzi

blanu je crino =3D blajveri'o. In this case I refer= to {blajveri'o} as to a synonym of {blanu je crino} (blue-green). I su= ggest that no new meaning is added here.

In other = words rafybri can be constructed from tanru only if the latter have logical= operators
("pelnimre tricu" can't be compressed into rafybri).

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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/kgWQbXt6Q-QJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
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--f46d04088cc9ff29f504be6f5974--