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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:38:30 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Rafybri and 4 new rafsi. Suggestion for a new
 agglutinative style in Lojban
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On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:01 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

> At first I must say that I'm not a member of any language-developing
> committee (BPFK or anything).
> And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be
> enriched.
> Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaking real Lojban.
> Everything here should be marked as exclusively experimental and (.a'o) as
> the source for further consideration.
> None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.
>
> *Rafybri*
> *
> *
> I always noticed how lujvo break the transparent logic of bridi.
> Let's look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}.
> Although it's much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then "descend" (in
> English they differ in sounding considerably)
> nobody can guess that {nitkla} means "descend" and doesn't mean "go in a
> lower position under something" without getting the translation beforehand.
>

I disagree. I argue that it is actually rather easy to determine the
meaning of nitkla.

Let us assume that nitkla is a lujvo formed from the tanru {cnita klama},
which may or may not be true. {cnita klama} is a "below type-of going",
i.e.. "going below", i.e. "descending".

How is that difficult to figure out?


> Although anybody is free to say "klama lo cnita" instead
> it will lead to lengthier speech.
>
> What I suggest is to glue bridi together into a new form of lujvo called
> "rafybri".
> That's how it works.
> 1. First rule
>
> 4 new rafsi
> zve <= be fe lo
> zvi <= be fi lo
> zvo <= be fo lo
> zvu <= be fu lo
> and
> jve (fifth rafsi)
>
> When composing rafybri you replace gismu with rafsi and "be fe lo" etc.
> with new rafsi of ZVE series.
>
> 2. cmavo attached to rafsi don't lead to the emergence of a new meaning.
> Therefore selpa'i  is a synonym for "se prami" (actually the second rule is
> not a new rule at all).
>
> Applying this rule we can dramatically compress the length of lojbanic
> jufra.
> And if we replace cnita with dizlo in our example we can save even two
> syllables.
> klama lo cnita = klama lo dizlo = kla+zve+dzi = klazvedzi
>
> blanu je crino = blajveri'o. In this case I refer to {blajveri'o} as to a
> synonym of {blanu je crino} (blue-green). I suggest that no new meaning is
> added here.
>
> In other words rafybri can be constructed from tanru only if the latter
> have logical operators
> ("pelnimre tricu" can't be compressed into rafybri).
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 2=
4, 2012 at 8:01 AM, gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.=
my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>At first I must say that I&#39;m not a =
member of any language-developing committee (BPFK or anything).<br></div><d=
iv>
And the following is just an idea how the flexibility of Lojban can be enri=
ched.</div><div>Nobody is asked to use the following when writing or speaki=
ng real Lojban.</div><div>Everything here should be marked as exclusively e=
xperimental and (.a&#39;o) as the source for further consideration.</div>
<div>None of the existing rules of Lojban (the baseline) is changed.</div><=
div><br></div><div><u>Rafybri</u></div><div><u><br></u></div><div>I always =
noticed how lujvo break the transparent logic of bridi.</div><div>Let&#39;s=
 look at {nitkla} which means {klama lo cnita}.</div>
<div>Although it&#39;s much easier to learn {nitkla} rather then &quot;desc=
end&quot; (in English they differ in sounding considerably)</div><div>nobod=
y can guess that {nitkla} means &quot;descend&quot; and doesn&#39;t mean &q=
uot;go in a lower position under something&quot; without getting the transl=
ation beforehand.</div>
</blockquote><div><br>I disagree. I argue that it is actually rather easy t=
o determine the meaning of nitkla.<br><br>Let us assume that nitkla is a lu=
jvo formed from the tanru {cnita klama}, which may or may not be true. {cni=
ta klama} is a &quot;below type-of going&quot;, i.e.. &quot;going below&quo=
t;, i.e. &quot;descending&quot;.<br>
<br>How is that difficult to figure out?<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>Although anybody is free to say=
 &quot;klama lo cnita&quot; instead</div>
<div>it will lead to lengthier speech.</div><div><br></div><div>What I sugg=
est is to glue bridi together into a new form of lujvo called &quot;rafybri=
&quot;.</div><div>That&#39;s how it works.=A0</div><div>1. First rule</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>4 new =
rafsi</div><div>zve &lt;=3D be fe lo</div><div>zvi &lt;=3D be fi lo=A0</div=
><div>zvo &lt;=3D be fo lo=A0</div><div>zvu &lt;=3D be fu lo=A0</div><div>a=
nd=A0</div><div>
jve (fifth rafsi)</div></blockquote><div>When composing rafybri you replace=
 gismu with rafsi and &quot;be fe lo&quot; etc. with new rafsi of ZVE serie=
s.<br></div><div><br></div><div>2. cmavo attached to rafsi don&#39;t lead t=
o the emergence of a new meaning. Therefore selpa&#39;i =A0is a synonym for=
 &quot;se prami&quot; (actually the second rule is not a new rule at all).<=
/div>
<div><br></div><div>Applying this rule we can dramatically compress the len=
gth of lojbanic jufra.</div><div>And if we replace cnita with dizlo in our =
example we can save even two syllables.</div><div>klama lo cnita =3D klama =
lo dizlo =3D kla+zve+dzi =3D klazvedzi</div>
<div><br></div><div>blanu je crino =3D blajveri&#39;o. In this case I refer=
 to {blajveri&#39;o} as to a synonym of {blanu je crino} (blue-green). I su=
ggest that no new meaning is added here.</div><div><br></div><div>In other =
words rafybri can be constructed from tanru only if the latter have logical=
 operators</div>
<div>(&quot;pelnimre tricu&quot; can&#39;t be compressed into rafybri).</di=
v><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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/d/msg/lojban/-/kgWQbXt6Q-QJ</a>.<br>=20
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n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o =
mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi=
.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father=
. :D )<br>
<br>
</div>

<p></p>

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ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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