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Subject: Re: [lojban] Baby words: "be careful of X"
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I agree with lojbab, "be careful" is probably an English idiom. French uses
"fais attention =E0..." which is essentially "pay attention to..."; a nativ=
e
francophone might consider {jundi} first.

I'd suggest {.i .o'i lo nu <condition> ka'e jai ri'a cortu} where
<condition> is whatever will make the toy hurt the baby.
Or, if you don't care about the condition exactly, {tu'a lo selkei ka'e jai
ri'a cortu} or {lo selkei ka'e jai jai ri'a cortu}

Then again, do you use weirdo grammar like {ka'e jai ri'a} when talking to
babies?

mu'o mi'e la tsani

On 2 May 2012 18:55, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG <
lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:

> Robin Lee Powell wrote:
>
>> I don't see a good way to do this as a bridi.  {kajde} isn't use,
>> it's mention; that is, {kajde} isn't warning someone, it's talking
>> about someone having been warned.  I don't see anything else good.
>>
>> Ideas?
>>
>
> The problem seems to be that people are insisting on translating "Be
> careful" as an imperative based on "careful".  That is English idiom.  I =
am
> pretty sure that not all languages express warnings in terms of "being
> careful".
>
> You can indeed use kajde, just not as an imperative.  Statements about
> events are not necessarily in the past tense.
>
> mi kajde do lenu ...
> (which event you can mark with pu'o to warn of an impending catastrophe).
>
> You can of course also add .e'unai at the appropriate point for emphasis
>
>
>  The specific example was "Be carefull pulling on that toy; it's
>> going to spring back and hit you and that will hurt".
>>
>
> With two sentences in English, what you are warning is ambiguous.
>
> The caution statement (x3 of kajde) would be "if you pull on that toy,
> then it will spring back, and hit you, and you will be hurt", possibly wi=
th
> a nice strong attitudinal expressing (empathic)-pain on the last clause.
>
> But some would express it as imperative "Don't pull on that toy, or else
> ..." in which case it is expressed as a negative imperative, perhaps with
> an afterthought causal connective.
>
> lojbab
>
>
>
> --
> Bob LeChevalier    lojbab@lojban.org    www.lojban.org
> President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
>
>
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I agree with lojbab, &quot;be careful&quot; is probably an English idiom. F=
rench uses &quot;fais attention =E0...&quot; which is essentially &quot;pay=
 attention to...&quot;; a native francophone might consider {jundi} first.<=
div>

<br></div><div>I&#39;d suggest {.i .o&#39;i lo nu &lt;condition&gt; ka&#39;=
e jai ri&#39;a cortu} where &lt;condition&gt; is whatever will make the toy=
 hurt the baby.</div><div>Or, if you don&#39;t care about the condition exa=
ctly, {tu&#39;a lo selkei ka&#39;e jai ri&#39;a cortu} or {lo selkei ka&#39=
;e jai jai ri&#39;a cortu}</div>

<div><br></div><div>Then again, do you use weirdo grammar like {ka&#39;e ja=
i ri&#39;a} when talking to babies?</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#3=
9;e la tsani<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 May 2012 18:55, Bob LeC=
hevalier, President and Founder - LLG <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:lojbab@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">lojbab@lojban.org</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">Robin Lee Powell wrote:<br=
>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don&#39;t see a good way to do this as a bridi. =A0{kajde} isn&#39;t use,=
<br>
it&#39;s mention; that is, {kajde} isn&#39;t warning someone, it&#39;s talk=
ing<br>
about someone having been warned. =A0I don&#39;t see anything else good.<br=
>
<br>
Ideas?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
The problem seems to be that people are insisting on translating &quot;Be c=
areful&quot; as an imperative based on &quot;careful&quot;. =A0That is Engl=
ish idiom. =A0I am pretty sure that not all languages express warnings in t=
erms of &quot;being careful&quot;.<br>


<br>
You can indeed use kajde, just not as an imperative. =A0Statements about ev=
ents are not necessarily in the past tense.<br>
<br>
mi kajde do lenu ...<br>
(which event you can mark with pu&#39;o to warn of an impending catastrophe=
).<br>
<br>
You can of course also add .e&#39;unai at the appropriate point for emphasi=
s<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The specific example was &quot;Be carefull pulling on that toy; it&#39;s<br=
>
going to spring back and hit you and that will hurt&quot;.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
With two sentences in English, what you are warning is ambiguous.<br>
<br>
The caution statement (x3 of kajde) would be &quot;if you pull on that toy,=
 then it will spring back, and hit you, and you will be hurt&quot;, possibl=
y with a nice strong attitudinal expressing (empathic)-pain on the last cla=
use.<br>


<br>
But some would express it as imperative &quot;Don&#39;t pull on that toy, o=
r else ...&quot; in which case it is expressed as a negative imperative, pe=
rhaps with an afterthought causal connective.<br>
<br>
lojbab<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Bob LeChevalier =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">lojbab@lojban.org</a> =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org" target=3D=
"_blank">www.lojban.org</a><br>
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.</font></span><div c=
lass=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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