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On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:37:48AM -0700, ianek wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 9:20:18 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 11:24:06AM -0700, ianek wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:01:27 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wrote:
> > > > > > Ad c. Maybe we should make jbovlaste 2.0? I think it's the
> > > > > > hardest part...
> > > > >
> > > > > I've also requested this many times.  I gather Dag has done
> > > > > some work here, but nothing worth showing off.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > To complete such a project you need at least two people: one
> > > > who has the resources to do it (skill, time, will) and
> > > > another, who knows what they want from this project and can
> > > > demand from the former (which includes setting deadlines) and
> > > > preferably has some power over them (eg. by paying them for
> > > > work). It's not easy to get such two people, but it's even
> > > > harder (pe'i) to get a bigger project done without them.
> > >
> > > I'm perfectly capable of being the demander, if I had any
> > > evidence that there was anyone around here who could be the
> > > do-er; everyone who has ever offered to help with anything
> > > around here has stopped helping within, at the very longest,
> > > about a month[1].
> > >
> >
> > By saying "perfectly capable of being the demander" you (pe'i)
> > don't mean that you have some power over potential doers, which is
> > pe'i the source of problems. But it's really hard to gain power
> > without lots of money, so I'm afraid I can't help here.
>
> Right, I meant capable of managing, not capable of providing
> external motivation for people to be managed.
>
> In a community this large, I would expect to *occassionally* call
> for volunteers and actually get some significant help, but that
> hasn't been the case, really, ever.  It's kind of disturbing,
> honestly.  I wonder what is wrong.
>
> I can't answer that question, but the whole issue of volunteers (or lack
thereof) with Lojban makes an interesting case study.

stevo


> -Robin
>
> --
> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni
> li'u
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
>

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Robin =
Lee Powell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.=
org" target=3D"_blank">rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:37:48AM -0700, ianek wrote:<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 9:20:18 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 11:24:06AM -0700, ianek wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:01:27 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wro=
te:<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ad c. Maybe we should make=
 jbovlaste 2.0? I think it&#39;s the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; hardest part...<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I&#39;ve also requested this many times. =A0I gather Da=
g has done<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; some work here, but nothing worth showing off.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; To complete such a project you need at least two people: one=
<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; who has the resources to do it (skill, time, will) and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; another, who knows what they want from this project and can<=
br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; demand from the former (which includes setting deadlines) an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; preferably has some power over them (eg. by paying them for<=
br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; work). It&#39;s not easy to get such two people, but it&#39;=
s even<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; harder (pe&#39;i) to get a bigger project done without them.=
<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I&#39;m perfectly capable of being the demander, if I had any<br>
&gt; &gt; evidence that there was anyone around here who could be the<br>
&gt; &gt; do-er; everyone who has ever offered to help with anything<br>
&gt; &gt; around here has stopped helping within, at the very longest,<br>
&gt; &gt; about a month[1].<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; By saying &quot;perfectly capable of being the demander&quot; you (pe&=
#39;i)<br>
&gt; don&#39;t mean that you have some power over potential doers, which is=
<br>
&gt; pe&#39;i the source of problems. But it&#39;s really hard to gain powe=
r<br>
&gt; without lots of money, so I&#39;m afraid I can&#39;t help here.<br>
<br>
</div>Right, I meant capable of managing, not capable of providing<br>
external motivation for people to be managed.<br>
<br>
In a community this large, I would expect to *occassionally* call<br>
for volunteers and actually get some significant help, but that<br>
hasn&#39;t been the case, really, ever. =A0It&#39;s kind of disturbing,<br>
honestly. =A0I wonder what is wrong.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></blockquo=
te><div>I can&#39;t answer that question, but the whole issue of volunteers=
 (or lack thereof) with Lojban makes an interesting case study.=A0</div><di=
v>

<br></div><div>stevo</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><spa=
n class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
-Robin<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
--<br>
<a href=3D"http://singinst.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://singinst.org/</a>=
 : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.<br>
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go&#39;i li&#39;u =
.e<br>
lu go&#39;i li&#39;u .i ji&#39;a go&#39;i lu na&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e =
lu go&#39;i na&#39;i li&#39;u .e<br>
lu no&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e lu to&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e lu lo mam=
ta be do cu sofybakni li&#39;u<br>
<br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">To post to this group, send e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com<=
/a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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?hl=3Den.<br />



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