Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:53878) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SSmyx-0000qb-7x; Fri, 11 May 2012 03:22:04 -0700 Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56sf3192420yhq.16 for ; Fri, 11 May 2012 03:21:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=WJj6bxD/lI9B/zMDI+Ab595AHvQ83Xfw3luRdHrO+FQ=; b=tn4LVmAlhXul+6OHyc1OIUojtnrkwFWAHc0G8cIiBH/UTbV4mLOnQbo+m9oU4Tgf3b Drme/0sGiXejBsG/SH7NWrFZHOhJEvstDFcC3Hx9x9uGatUqXD+HkYp3CmKLq2lXc6iz 2409qEeQAIfuXLz7pCAAMfzY4jnxPakPr6fF0= Received: by 10.236.154.67 with SMTP id g43mr656095yhk.12.1336731708648; Fri, 11 May 2012 03:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.103.202 with SMTP id f50ls2154304yhg.4.gmail; Fri, 11 May 2012 03:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.170.197 with SMTP id p45mr654068yhl.15.1336731707923; Fri, 11 May 2012 03:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 03:21:47 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <28872598.911.1336731707204.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbws2> In-Reply-To: <524651.567.1336675068460.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak7> References: <13765994.1942.1336566814390.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynss9> <20120509170127.GR27762@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <27554010.67.1336587846504.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yngr14> <20120509192018.GS27762@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <524651.567.1336675068460.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak7> Subject: Re: [lojban] bugs in jbovlaste MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_910_25167042.1336731707202" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_910_25167042.1336731707202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:37:48 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 9:20:18 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 11:24:06AM -0700, ianek wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:01:27 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wrote: >> > > >> > > On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 05:33:34AM -0700, ianek wrote: >> > > > coi rodo Quite often I hear that something in jbovlaste isn't >> > > > good (usually misleading keywords). But jbovlaste is not >> > > > carved in stone! How come people keep complaining and errors >> > > > are still there? I have some hypotheses: >> > > > >> > > > a) people are lazy >> > > >> > > It's more-or-less that; jbovlaste is written in a language >> > > framework that no-one around here really likes, the original >> > > author is gone, and I don't have the time. I've asked for help >> > > with it several times, and been totally ignored. >> > > >> > >> > I was talking about seperate things: the jbovlaste data and the >> > jbovlaste interface. People complain about the data, especially >> > misleading keywords/glosses. And AFAIK glosses are not baselined >> > and can be changed at any time, unlike gismu definitions. And yet >> > they stay the same. >> >> Gloss words for *gismu* are absolutely official, don't touch them. >> Make notes at >> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gismu+Issues , and if you >> want me to get to them faster, help with CLLv1.1. > > > Fine, I've just added aionys' complaints about familial gismu, and also > xorxes' proposed definition of xruti. If anynone knows about other proposed > changes, please check whether they're there and if not, add them. > What's that with {xruti}? It's agentive, don't touch it! Let's create another experimental gismu with the definition {x1 (agent) returns to origin/earlier state x3 from x4} or possibly with another order of sumti. But {xruti} must retain the meaning. *OTHERWISE WE'LL LOSE COMPATIBILITY WITH OLDER TEXTS.* > >> For everything else, if you think it needs fixing, change it. >> Anything can be edited by anyone with an account. >> >> > >> > > > Ad c. Maybe we should make jbovlaste 2.0? I think it's the >> > > > hardest part... >> > > >> > > I've also requested this many times. I gather Dag has done some >> > > work here, but nothing worth showing off. >> > > >> > >> > To complete such a project you need at least two people: one who >> > has the resources to do it (skill, time, will) and another, who >> > knows what they want from this project and can demand from the >> > former (which includes setting deadlines) and preferably has some >> > power over them (eg. by paying them for work). It's not easy to >> > get such two people, but it's even harder (pe'i) to get a bigger >> > project done without them. >> >> I'm perfectly capable of being the demander, if I had any evidence >> that there was anyone around here who could be the do-er; everyone >> who has ever offered to help with anything around here has stopped >> helping within, at the very longest, about a month[1]. >> > > By saying "perfectly capable of being the demander" you (pe'i) don't mean > that you have some power over potential doers, which is pe'i the source of > problems. But it's really hard to gain power without lots of money, so I'm > afraid I can't help here. > > >> We have money, but we don't have the kind of money to pay someone to >> complete a large-scale programming project at reasonable rates. >> >> > >> -Robin >> >> [1]: There actually is one exception, but he had little choice as >> his mother insisted that he work, volunteer, or leave her house; >> IIRC he lasted for like 2 months, maybe 3, before suddenly stopping >> work for no apparent reason; I have no idea what he told his mom. >> >> -- >> http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e >> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e >> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni >> li'u >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/LCF0QI48EBEJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_910_25167042.1336731707202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:37:48 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote:


On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 9:20:18 PM UT= C+2, Robin Powell wrote:
On Wed, May= 09, 2012 at 11:24:06AM -0700, ianek wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:01:27 PM UTC+2, Robin Powell wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 05:33:34AM -0700, ianek wrote:=20
> > > coi rodo Quite often I hear that something in jbovlaste = isn't
> > > good (usually misleading keywords). But jbovlaste is not
> > > carved in stone! How come people keep complaining and er= rors
> > > are still there? I have some hypotheses:=20
> > >=20
> > > a) people are lazy=20
> >
> > It's more-or-less that; jbovlaste is written in a language
> > framework that no-one around here really likes, the original
> > author is gone, and I don't have the time.  I've asked f= or help
> > with it several times, and been totally ignored.=20
> >
>=20
> I was talking about seperate things: the jbovlaste data and the
> jbovlaste interface. People complain about the data, especially
> misleading keywords/glosses. And AFAIK glosses are not baselined
> and can be changed at any time, unlike gismu definitions. And yet
> they stay the same.

Gloss words for *gismu* are absolutely official, don't touch them.
Make notes at
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gismu+Issues= , and if you
want me to get to them faster, help with CLLv1.1.  

Fine, I've just added aionys' complaints about famil= ial gismu, and also xorxes' proposed definition of xruti. If anynone knows = about other proposed changes, please check whether they're there and if not= , add them.

What's that with {xruti}?= It's agentive, don't touch it!
Let's create another experimental= gismu with the definition {x1 (agent) returns to origin/earlier state x3 f= rom x4} or possibly with another order of sumti.
But {xruti} must= retain the meaning.
OTHERWISE WE'LL LOSE COMPATIBILITY WITH OLDER TE= XTS.

<= div> 
For everything else, if you think it need= s fixing, change it.
Anything can be edited by anyone with an account.

 
> > > Ad c. Maybe we should make jbovlaste 2.0? I think it's the
> > > hardest part...=20
> >
> > I've also requested this many times.  I gather Dag has d= one some
> > work here, but nothing worth showing off.=20
> >
>=20
> To complete such a project you need at least two people: one who
> has the resources to do it (skill, time, will) and another, who
> knows what they want from this project and can demand from the
> former (which includes setting deadlines) and preferably has some
> power over them (eg. by paying them for work). It's not easy to
> get such two people, but it's even harder (pe'i) to get a bigger
> project done without them.

I'm perfectly capable of being the demander, if I had any evidence
that there was anyone around here who could be the do-er; everyone
who has ever offered to help with anything around here has stopped
helping within, at the very longest, about a month[1].

By saying "perfectly capable of being = the demander" you (pe'i) don't mean that you have some power over potential= doers, which is pe'i the source of problems. But it's really hard to gain = power without lots of money, so I'm afraid I can't help here.
&nb= sp;
We have money, but we don'= t have the kind of money to pay someone to
complete a large-scale programming project at reasonable rates.

 
-Robin

[1]: There actually is one exception, but he had little choice as
his mother insisted that he work, volunteer, or leave her house;
IIRC he lasted for like 2 months, maybe 3, before suddenly stopping
work for no apparent reason; I have no idea what he told his mom.

--=20
http://singinst.org/= :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakn= i li'u

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/LC= F0QI48EBEJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_910_25167042.1336731707202--