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Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:50:27 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj1egYHO-7GvceYiayZ2R=S_TRT5ex9JOgx3Kx+BK9+PGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Word changing and word creation (was Re: [lojban] bugs in jbovlaste)
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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Except for arguably cilre/facki, none of those are synonyms.

Insofar as Lojban is concerned, what I consider to be a synonym are those
which differ only in place structure, where all that is required for them
to have the same place structure- and the thereby the exact same meaning-
are the use of one or more of FA, SE, zi'o, and BAI.

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>wrote:

> It seems to me like some of the gismu are somewhat redundant to other
> gismu, or exist solely for the sake of simplifying lujvo.
>
> My favourite example is {binxo}
> All of the following are equivalent:
> i mi binxo lo cusku
> i mi co'a ckaji lo ka ce'u cusku
> i mi co'a cusku
>
> the transformations are possible by virtue of:
> i da zo'u da binxo lo broda ijo da co'a ckaji lo ka ce'u broda
> i da zo'u da co'a ckaji lo ka ce'u broda ijo da co'a broda
>
> This makes binxo and ckaji useless, when not using KOhA in the x2.
>
> Some others are facki, cilre, etc. which can be all reduced into djuno, or
> djuno + zukte.
> (Actually, a lot of gismu are GISMU + zukte)
>
> i da de di zo'u da facki de di ijo da co'a djuno de di
> (not to mention: i da de di zo'u ca'a lo du'u da facki de di kei di ckaji
> de; which leads me to believe that facki2, djuno2, cilre2, etc. are ka1,
> not du'u1)
> i daxipa daxire daxici daxivo daximu zo'u daxipa cilre daxire daxici
> daxivo deximu ijo da zukte daximu lo nu daxipa co'a djuno daxire daxici
> ra'i daxivo
>
> mu'o mi'e la tsani
>
> On 12 May 2012 08:07, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 5:22 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> >>I have a hard time believing that. I would need you to show me an
>>> example of this, as there are nearly 1400 gismu currently.
>>>
>>> A hard work to do. You probably will want to see the list of definitions
>>> of the rest of the gismu as combinations of the selected 340. And I don't
>>> have this currently. As for the list without definitions it'll be
>>> stabilised in several weeks.
>>>
>>
>> I didn't say the whole list. I said an example.
>>
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>
>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
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>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Except for arguably cilre/facki, none of those are synonyms.<br><br>Insofar=
 as Lojban is concerned, what I consider to be a synonym are those which di=
ffer only in place structure, where all that is required for them to have t=
he same place structure- and the thereby the exact same meaning- are the us=
e of one or more of FA, SE, zi&#39;o, and BAI.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Jacob Erri=
ngton <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nictytan@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">nictytan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
It seems to me like some of the gismu are somewhat redundant to other gismu=
, or exist solely for the sake of simplifying lujvo.<div><br></div><div>My =
favourite example is {binxo}</div><div>All of the following are equivalent:=
</div>


<div>i mi binxo lo cusku</div><div>i mi co&#39;a ckaji lo ka ce&#39;u cusku=
</div><div>i mi co&#39;a cusku</div><div><br></div><div>the transformations=
 are possible by virtue of:</div><div>i da zo&#39;u da binxo lo broda ijo d=
a co&#39;a ckaji lo ka ce&#39;u broda</div>


<div>i da zo&#39;u da co&#39;a ckaji lo ka ce&#39;u broda ijo da co&#39;a b=
roda</div><div><br></div><div>This makes binxo and ckaji useless, when not =
using KOhA in the x2.</div><div><br></div><div>Some others are facki, cilre=
, etc. which can be all reduced into djuno, or djuno + zukte.</div>


<div>(Actually, a lot of gismu are GISMU + zukte)</div><div><br></div><div>=
i da de di zo&#39;u da facki de di ijo da co&#39;a djuno de di</div><div>(n=
ot to mention: i da de di zo&#39;u ca&#39;a lo du&#39;u da facki de di kei =
di ckaji de; which leads me to believe that facki2, djuno2, cilre2, etc. ar=
e ka1, not du&#39;u1)</div>


<div>i daxipa daxire daxici daxivo daximu zo&#39;u daxipa cilre daxire daxi=
ci daxivo deximu ijo da zukte daximu lo nu daxipa co&#39;a djuno daxire dax=
ici ra&#39;i daxivo</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la tsani<br>


<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On 12 May 2012 08:07,=
 Jonathan Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></div></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div class=3D"h5">

<div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 5:22 AM, gleki <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">



<div>&gt;&gt;I have a hard time believing that. I would need you to show me=
 an example of this, as there are nearly 1400 gismu currently.<br>
<br>
</div>A hard work to do. You probably will want to see the list of definiti=
ons of the rest of the gismu as combinations of the selected 340. And I don=
&#39;t have this currently. As for the list without definitions it&#39;ll b=
e stabilised in several weeks.<br>



</blockquote></div><br></div>I didn&#39;t say the whole list. I said an exa=
mple.<div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i=
.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<=
br>


(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
<br>

<p></p></div></div></div><div class=3D"im"><div>

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</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"im HOEnZb">

<p></p>

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n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

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?hl=3Den.<br />



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