Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:34054) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1STgEV-0002oY-7h; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:41 -0700 Received: by wibhr4 with SMTP id hr4sf2395384wib.16 for ; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=sT51ltob/DxpYHw8OF24CZIT5nGtsnvmfgSUIwV9ick=; b=AiOi+DyTD2mpntsb/32IRAM4cN0ElvZ42iUsGvTQ2VQSfUMfpLDbYxWYhHepc01cHm 8GgkuSdPkGxCha91QI0Mn6XU0MQPdOdceVu6XzciaJoGE1eLhRJPgJMksKrBSDlsGl9Q JG8Spk3nyWwuE35IIbifRwC5fo5Wy5eQ+EfvY= Received: by 10.205.141.75 with SMTP id jd11mr123013bkc.29.1336944090937; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.88 with SMTP id r24ls6840904bks.4.gmail; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.154.133 with SMTP id o5mr570261bkw.0.1336944089885; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.154.133 with SMTP id o5mr570260bkw.0.1336944089852; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f178.google.com (mail-lb0-f178.google.com [209.85.217.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hy18si20078709bkc.2.2012.05.13.14.21.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.178; Received: by lbbgj10 with SMTP id gj10so2916407lbb.9 for ; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.103.8 with SMTP id fs8mr2717992lbb.29.1336944089413; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.48.99 with HTTP; Sun, 13 May 2012 14:21:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <13765994.1942.1336566814390.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynss9> <20120509170127.GR27762@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <27554010.67.1336587846504.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yngr14> <20120509192018.GS27762@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <524651.567.1336675068460.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak7> <28872598.911.1336731707204.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbws2> <20120511233208.GC1837@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <7475709.243.1336804273567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbq5> <26105036.424.1336821755715.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynmb39> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 17:21:09 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Word changing and word creation (was Re: [lojban] bugs in jbovlaste) To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401fa8d88b88204bff18d05 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d0401fa8d88b88204bff18d05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jacob, why do you care if there are redundant gismu? stevo On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Jacob Errington wrote: > I'm afraid no one is really understanding what I'm trying to get across. > With my list, I'm simply saying that a lot of gismu can be "removed" > by virtue of the fact that they're simply an agentive version, a > volitional version, or an implicitly tensed version of another gismu. > A few can be reduced into djuno, and some can almost be eliminated > (ckaji), where as for agentives, lasna is just jorne+BAI, in > particular {gau}. Isn't that what you said was your definition of > synonymous, eyeonous? > > On 13 May 2012 01:15, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:01 PM, MorphemeAddict > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Jones > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Jacob Errington > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > Except for arguably cilre/facki, none of those are synonyms. > >>>> I never said they were *synonymous*, I said that they could be reduced > >>>> into one or an other. If one *does* use the more degenerate form, then > >>>> there're additional implications to be handled, such as tense, > >>>> usually. > >>>> Also, I'd say that the difference between "learning" and "finding out" > >>>> is that one requires volition. > >>>> I don't see things like [i mi cilre lo du'u lo mamtymamta cu co'a > >>>> morsi], I see things like [i mi facki lo du'u...]. > >>>> Some synonyms: > >>>> mrobi'o and co'amro > >>>> tolyli'a and klamu'o > >>>> ckaji and tolcau > >>>> claxu and tolkai > >>>> binxo and co'arkai > >>>> cliva and klama > >>>> lasna and jongau > >>> > >>> > >>> Most of those aren't gismu, so they don't count, leaving us with only > >>> cliva/klama.Don't respond to something if you're addressing it. > >> > >> > >> Is this supposed to be ".. if you're NOT addressing it"? > >> > >> stevo > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d0401fa8d88b88204bff18d05 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jacob, why do you care if there are redundant gismu?=A0

= stevo

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Ja= cob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm afraid no one is really understandin= g what I'm trying to get across.
With my list, I'm simply saying that a lot of gismu can be "remove= d"
by virtue of the fact that they're simply an agentive version, a
volitional version, or an implicitly tensed version of another gismu.
A few can be reduced into djuno, and some can almost be eliminated
(ckaji), where as for agentives, lasna is just jorne+BAI, in
particular {gau}. Isn't that what you said was your definition of
synonymous, eyeonous?

On 13 May 2012 01:15, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:01 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Except for arguably cilre/facki, none of those are sy= nonyms.
>>>> I never said they were *synonymous*, I said that they coul= d be reduced
>>>> into one or an other. If one *does* use the more degenerat= e form, then
>>>> there're additional implications to be handled, such a= s tense,
>>>> usually.
>>>> Also, I'd say that the difference between "learni= ng" and "finding out"
>>>> is that one requires volition.
>>>> I don't see things like [i mi cilre lo du'u lo mam= tymamta cu co'a
>>>> morsi], I see things like [i mi facki lo du'u...].
>>>> Some synonyms:
>>>> mrobi'o and co'amro
>>>> tolyli'a and klamu'o
>>>> ckaji and tolcau
>>>> claxu and tolkai
>>>> binxo and co'arkai
>>>> cliva and klama
>>>> lasna and jongau
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of those aren't gismu, so they don't count, leavi= ng us with only
>>> cliva/klama.Don't respond to something if you're addre= ssing it.
>>
>>
>> Is this supposed to be ".. if you're NOT addressing it&qu= ot;?
>>
>> stevo
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

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