Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]:57133)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCJbznvHdFRCMk8H9BBoEHviCgA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1STibt-0003lj-2q; Sun, 13 May 2012 16:54:05 -0700
Received: by laai10 with SMTP id i10sf2076304laa.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from
         :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=tnpUYQ1SNtfgUkypQlyhz06ccnFih0rpvFN2J7km80k=;
        b=yecmgglbm73H8W8CIBQSkvMj4ezTsm+K+qANc+E9hIxJg0FQQaWHWIv50HltqzQJVu
         So1vMgNomZ1a78NRLRRcTtTuxB1t4Ohthb2f2ZApgoTY0p+lQDlKoik+MZuwQDXuuv8e
         CfLt4V5bqA4uCtroDNIKx4LwC8+trr4ofik7I=
Received: by 10.204.128.73 with SMTP id j9mr146148bks.14.1336953228861;
        Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.5.133 with SMTP id 5ls6823660bkv.0.gmail; Sun, 13 May 2012
 16:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.204.152.217 with SMTP id h25mr598447bkw.3.1336953227269;
        Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.204.152.217 with SMTP id h25mr598446bkw.3.1336953227239;
        Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f47.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f47.google.com [209.85.215.47])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ig3si20488561bkc.3.2012.05.13.16.53.47
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.47;
Received: by lags15 with SMTP id s15so3158341lag.20
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.152.146.129 with SMTP id tc1mr6198300lab.27.1336953226673;
 Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.112.48.99 with HTTP; Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:26 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ8VDUQN_8TUojWcjnTQfeWyU3bG7TmxvPcenj2QSPFoETBSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13765994.1942.1336566814390.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynss9>
 <20120509170127.GR27762@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <27554010.67.1336587846504.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yngr14>
 <20120509192018.GS27762@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <524651.567.1336675068460.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak7>
 <28872598.911.1336731707204.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbws2>
 <CAMKwHj3t7rHwWWUDoWbYzdXtuviVn=iky9S1pJd93WbsEkEtHw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20120511233208.GC1837@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <CAMKwHj11Ef+3v7TZ-deikDpMRGKY3mzY0WGQ1-O4QZoJi0Fe4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7475709.243.1336804273567.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbq5>
 <CAMKwHj1gTm9OqKxgVBTqFYxcwGFaiFFDrjZ3WtfPLqGRfCY1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <26105036.424.1336821755715.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynmb39>
 <CAMKwHj3fKGPAx-ekdNGAgZnJBNXyikqBVEyzKKBcm0GJmjOaUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOQ8VDXqr0wT1agGYqsk_Ohd8NrLYCXc=+gKdyDWFYjLkRNUiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj1egYHO-7GvceYiayZ2R=S_TRT5ex9JOgx3Kx+BK9+PGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOQ8VDUgAX8zuw7J1NYdda73-L27eUwZ_k6BEu7J1tixY+-Vkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj0GyJAA+0gvJeAcK7uE1Cmxe58jpiumXW_Q-ajjPAZ6og@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHiXx=NfW8KpH3gbSogebLSDc2PD4aFEngfTH=KiXKVu_OgtPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj3eB4XKrKNXho_qcrie6K4hNmOjZCxfwy7R01ZJNNU6fQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOQ8VDUpBEXuP=uD_7nKD0900Fi+DeOuBMN+hpQZRMx__S3fFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj0XO+PBpj=5XCj-UupzoUF5cB=NbFREzKHby0FWM0LzTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOQ8VDU6mBPW0scJhGyd=sj9Dtr-f2oBXL+NwdhMBHTM4_GucA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj3_op0UgJonhf44S3bdJ3kL_Da5m35dcOQbu8UvX-nvcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2evWqBuPdPg=VuMyst4q0u0jcwTDoYQaBXs+RE6WEfNYg@mail.gmail.com> <CAOQ8VDUQN_8TUojWcjnTQfeWyU3bG7TmxvPcenj2QSPFoETBSg@mail.gmail.com>
From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 19:53:26 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHiXx=MYNjCvDHLEdUVmNW=5De3Lw6RLn7uebEPNTgZaNkATyA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Word changing and word creation (was Re: [lojban] bugs in jbovlaste)
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.47 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f2349e1283ee504bff3aefa
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

--e89a8f2349e1283ee504bff3aefa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

> Stevo, simple. Because of what gleki said:
> >You probably will want to see the list of definitions of the rest of the
> gismu as combinations of the selected 340.
>
> There're probably more than 340 semantic primitives in Lojban,


How do you define a semantic primitive? According to NSM, there are only
about 63 semantic primitives.

stevo


> but
> it's highly likely that all the other more complex gismu *can* be
> reduced into a much smaller set of "core" gismu. Then, in my opinion,
> gismu should only be added at this point if that new concept is not
> readily expressible as a combination of preexisting gismu and is a
> very universal concept. If the concept is not universal, then it
> should merit a zi'evla, because all skilled lojbanists should be
> expected to know at least the whole gimste.
>
> Note that I've already said all of the second part of that.
>
> mu'o mi'e la tsani
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--e89a8f2349e1283ee504bff3aefa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Jacob E=
rrington <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nictytan@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">nictytan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">Stevo, simple. Because of what gleki said:<br>
&gt;You probably will want to see the list of definitions of the rest of th=
e gismu as combinations of the selected 340.<br>
<br>
</div>There&#39;re probably more than 340 semantic primitives in Lojban, </=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>How do you define a semantic primitive? Acco=
rding to NSM, there are only about 63 semantic primitives.</div><div><br>

</div><div>stevo</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">but<br>
it&#39;s highly likely that all the other more complex gismu *can* be<br>
reduced into a much smaller set of &quot;core&quot; gismu. Then, in my opin=
ion,<br>
gismu should only be added at this point if that new concept is not<br>
readily expressible as a combination of preexisting gismu and is a<br>
very universal concept. If the concept is not universal, then it<br>
should merit a zi&#39;evla, because all skilled lojbanists should be<br>
expected to know at least the whole gimste.<br>
<br>
Note that I&#39;ve already said all of the second part of that.<br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la tsani<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--e89a8f2349e1283ee504bff3aefa--