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[68.230.241.216]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u7si780988qcp.0.2012.05.16.12.07.53; Wed, 16 May 2012 12:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.216 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.216; Received: from eastrmimpo210.cox.net ([68.230.241.225]) by eastrmfepo201.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20120516190753.YBQF5450.eastrmfepo201.cox.net@eastrmimpo210.cox.net> for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 15:07:53 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([70.187.237.100]) by eastrmimpo210.cox.net with bizsmtp id Aj7s1j00B2AfMYu02j7szN; Wed, 16 May 2012 15:07:53 -0400 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020205.4FB3FB09.0071,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=zgrfwPxMZK8qZ92ObMQftE+CrxUcpQPkHWvi4UAp5mI= c=1 sm=1 a=dYDkaTZZu5wA:10 a=UPRFLzmHZpoA:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=MQZuvjT3xUZLKv0gclfWMg==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=8e6Ba4jP_60jwBciLScA:9 a=1DygyI30bKB79CwEym4A:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=L0kBGmiXcgRkMQ1t:21 a=5s0U-2RJrzfgQxGC:21 a=MQZuvjT3xUZLKv0gclfWMg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4FB3FB09.1080304@lojban.org> Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:07:53 -0400 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] What can you do with Lojban that you can't do with English? References: In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.216 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Alex Private wrote: > I'm trying to find some info on what the features of Lojban are, so > far I've only found very few confusing and vague statements about the > language. > > Could someone tell me what Lojban can do that English cannot and show > an example so it's easy for me to understand? Here are a few things. Lojban avoids syntactic ambiguity. The classic example from English: "Time flies like an arrow." "Fruit flies like a banana." "Time flies like an arrow". "With a stopwatch?" Another English example is "pretty little girl's school". Is the school pretty, or do only pretty girls attend the school. Is the school pretty little, or are the girls pretty little, or are the girls little while the school is pretty. Lojbanic analysis comes up with well over a dozen different interpretations of that 4 word phrase using fixed definitions of the words, all uniquely expressed in Lojban. Another buzzword phrase is "audiovisual isomorphism" where the Lojban spoken form can be written exactly as it is pronounced, and will be spelled correctly and break down into words in the correct way. Lojban has no "I scream" "Ice cream" pairs. There are also no homonyms. (Lojban does not eliminate semantic ambiguity, however. Just as in English, words have a range of meanings, somewhat imprecise. A politician can use the Lojban equivalent of words like "conservative" or "liberal" to mean all sorts of mutually incompatible things. BUT Lojban explicitly marks a word as pejorative with the prefix "mal", and the word is NOT to be understood as pejorative without that marker. Lojban also easily allows compounding so that subtle distinctions can be made by choosing a more precise word. Lojban also eliminates the grosser kinds of multiple meanings, like the word "pretty" that usually means something quite different modifying "little" and modifying "girl".) A third area: Lojban clearly separates the metalinguistic, attitudinal, emotive part of language from the actual claims. English relies on things like tone of voice for some of this. A sentence and a question may differ in meaning merely based on how your voice rises, or how you express emphasis or quotation: "This is a problem." "This is a problem?" "THIS is a problem!" (Lojban explicitly marks questions and emphasis with words. You can speak Lojban in a monotone without losing meaning.) He said I went to the store. He said "I went to the store." (The difference between these is minimal in spoken English, though one is a quote and the other is not, and they differ in who the person claimed went to the store. Lojban marks quotation in words, and allows for unambigous pronouns.) Lojban emotives/attitudinals convey all the nuances English speakers convey in tone of voice, and some that English speakers cannot really convey. "do klama" (You came.") appended with any number of attitudinals conveys a variety of reactions "ui" (happiness) "ua" (surprise) "oi" (complaint) "i'o" (appreciation) "o'onai" (anger) "iu" (love) and these can be combined to express a range of emotions at once. or subtler but important nuances "uiro'a" (social happiness - "your presence makes the party more interesting" "uiro'e" (mental happiness - "I'm looking forward to stimulating conversation") "uiro'u" (sexual happiness - which English speakers rarely express in words, and when they do so, it is idiosyncratic to the relationship and the situation). Lojban recognizes and clearly expresses the distinction between events causing other events, and people being agents of causation, and objects being tools of causation. The classic example here is, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people" both of which ignore that "Guns beings fired (possibly accidentally) while pointing at a critical part of the human anatomy, while loaded, and with the safety off" is what kills people, or even "Projectiles propelled sufficiently strongly to produce traumatic damage to a human body" is what kills people. Both of the latter express event causation, and are expressed differently in Lojban from the forms used for guns or people killing people. Much of the differences in Lojban are of the sort conveyed by the latter example, where English allows or even encourages sloppy thinking either through its structure or through the linguistic habits of its not-very-logical speakers. Lojban doesn't prevent sloppy thinking or usage, but it allows for more precise expression, and both the language and the culture of the language speakers encourages more precise and clear expression. -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.