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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:22:58 -0400
From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org>
Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] What is the x3 of tubnu?
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Michael Turniansky wrote:
>   I had actually asked that question on the list back on 2/22/08:
> 
>     preti
>     .i ma tertu'u to te tubnu toi
>     .i ri du da poi ca'a nenri lo tubnu gi'i pu se vimcu fi lo tubnu
> 
>  
>  Both xorxes and selckiku agreed at the time the asnwer was "gi'u"
>       --gejyspa
>  
> 
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:12 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com 
> <mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Agreed.
> 
> 
>     On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Robin Lee Powell
>     <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org <mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>>
>     wrote:
> 
>         That's what would be *useful*, but in that case you'd just say
>         "filled with x3", or perhaps "for being filled with x3".
> 
>         So many wording problems in the gismu list.  -_-
> 
>         -Robin
> 
>         On Sun, Jun 03, 2012 at 07:54:29PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
>          > Ah, yes. I must have glossed over the x2 bit. I thought it
>         was something
>          > else. In that case, I would suppose that the x3 is what is
>         currently
>          > occupying the hollow region of the tube, such as water in
>         plumbing, similar
>          > to the x2 of botpi. Further, I would guess that the reason
>         for the
>          > awkwardness of its phrasing is due to the uncommonness of the
>         concept
>          > attempting to be expressed in English.

Yes.

It is the material that currently comprises the hollow/interior/filling, 
usually air or water as the concept usually is used in English.  English 
talks of a tube or pipe as being "filled with" some material, suggesting 
that the interior was not part of the tube, but rather that the tube was 
a container of a sort.  There probably should be an alternate wording 
that matches the container version of the concept (but in the days when 
the gismu list was first written, a primary purpose was to support 
LogFlash, and hence character count was critical).

I was trying to word it to obtain a more generalized concept - one that 
would allow us to consider an insulated wire to be a tube or insulation 
with a copper (or other conductor) as the filling (or alternatively, the 
electric current might be considered the "filling", though this is 
stretching the concept).  I think that there were some other related 
concepts that we were trying to include as well, but they don't come to 
mind.
-- 
Bob LeChevalier    lojbab@lojban.org    www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

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