Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:38005) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SgIFM-0003aL-UJ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:49 -0700 Received: by wibhr4 with SMTP id hr4sf929263wib.16 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=RQVjPxGpKm4fxHSYiBYj9OYJ1qdDPsw11GkTNiAw6rE=; b=VL4cghbw8d2NRbT5uacfbi/if+8/jEkLCMdCUt6PQ0C4vTkCa6w+8L5aOEBHjnAR5M 7i2WZOqJF+YNYCc7GbOvL5z3VPlSpa+RNE0JSzTX4Qo90hhbNYr8rICZ26E0fmtbt1Lo sGE9qoIZ0hIh9FI3atx/4nEQcl1j8rtfNTjiQ= Received: by 10.204.152.220 with SMTP id h28mr651756bkw.26.1339950153417; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.8.149 with SMTP id h21ls2756458bkh.3.gmail; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.141.4 with SMTP id k4mr1486073bku.6.1339950152543; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.141.4 with SMTP id k4mr1486072bku.6.1339950152520; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-f43.google.com (mail-bk0-f43.google.com [209.85.214.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id iv15si12326000bkc.0.2012.06.17.09.22.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.43; Received: by mail-bk0-f43.google.com with SMTP id y5so3646471bkt.2 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.151.69 with SMTP id b5mr5180665bkw.69.1339950152293; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.125.5 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201206151650.50392.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:22:32 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] definition of si'e From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cfda8d81ccb04c2ad7470 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --0015175cfda8d81ccb04c2ad7470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yeah, I realized that afterwards. On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > That's what he's talking about. In the example, the "third" is not due to > si'e, but to fi'u. > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> What you are seeing here is an artifact of English. "nth" here is >> used not in the ordinal sense (first, second, third, etc.), but in the >> sense of a fraction (think of three fifTHS, eleven twelfTHs, etc.) >> >> --gejyspa >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >>> On Friday 15 June 2012 13:53:23 guskant wrote: >>> > The definition of si'e is inconsistent with its usage. According to >>> > the Complete Lojban Language Chapter 18 (and also to jbovlaste), si'e >>> > is defined as: >>> > x1 is an (n)th portion of mass x2. >>> > The example shows however that si'e itself does not imply fi'u (an >>> (n)th): >>> > 11.8) levi sanmi cu fi'ucisi'e lei mi djedi cidja >>> > This-here meal is-a-slash-three-portion-of my day-food. >>> > This meal is one-third of my daily food. >>> > Guessing from the example, the definition of si'e must be: >>> > x1 is n times portion of mass x2. >>> > n is a positive real number or 0, or may be simply a real number. I >>> > can't imagine the case that n is a complex number, but it might be >>> > mathematically possible. >>> >>> Sounds good to me. You may want to add a note that, normally, n is 0 >>> ga'obi'iga'o 1. >>> >>> Pierre >>> >>> -- >>> ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015175cfda8d81ccb04c2ad7470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 =A0 Yeah, I realized that afterwards.


On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Jonathan Jones <ey= eonus@gmail.com> wrote:
That's what he's talking about. In t= he example, the "third" is not due to si'e, but to fi'u.<= div class=3D"HOEnZb">


On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 a= t 3:03 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wr= ote:
=A0 =A0 What you are seeing= here is an artifact of English. =A0"nth" here is used not in the= =A0ordinal=A0sense (first, second, third, etc.), but in the sense of a frac= tion (think of three fifTHS, eleven twelfTHs, etc.)

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa


On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 a= t 4:50 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Friday 15 June 2012 13:53:23 guskant= wrote:
> The definition of si'e is inconsistent with its usage. According t= o
> the Complete Lojban Language Chapter 18 (and also to jbovlaste), si= 9;e
> is defined as:
> =A0 =A0x1 is an (n)th portion of mass x2.
> The example shows however that si'e itself does not imply fi'u= (an (n)th):
> =A0 =A011.8) =A0 =A0levi sanmi cu fi'ucisi'e lei mi djedi cidj= a
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0This-here meal is-a-slash-three-portion-of my day-food.=
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0This meal is one-third of my daily food.
> Guessing from the example, the definition of si'e must be:
> =A0 =A0x1 is n times portion of mass x2.
> n is a positive real number or 0, or may be simply a real number. I > can't imagine the case that n is a complex number, but it might be=
> mathematically possible.

Sounds good to me. You may want to add a note that, normally, n is 0<= br> ga'obi'iga'o 1.

Pierre

--
ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.<= br>
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do = zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


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