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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Are Natlang the best case for entropy in
 communication ?
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On Friday, June 22, 2012 5:21:55 PM UTC+4, Escape Landsome wrote:
>
> > If this doesn't work, then the problem isn't the language but either=20
> > the speaker's own vowel pronunciation or the surrounding noise itself.=
=20
> > Chances are, in such an overwhelmingly noisy environment, even your=20
> > "q" would be misheard as a different consonant: "aqa" as "aka", "iqi"=
=20
> > as "iji", etc.=20
>
> I am misunderstood.  "q" is an hypothetical new consonant.  It has=20
> nothing to do with guttural q=C3=A2f, or any guttural, hence any "k" or=
=20
> "kh" or "q".   It is just a void symbol like "x" in algebra.=20
>
> > A simpler solution:=20
> >=20
> > : <- [=CB=90]=20
> >=20
> > a:=20
> > e:=20
> > i:=20
> > o:=20
> > u:=20
> > so'a:=20
> > so'e:=20
> > so'i:=20
> > so'o:=20
> > so'u:=20
> > ...=20
>
> This does not work, nor does "VqV" either.=20
>
> Why ?  Because, suppose somebody mispronounces the "a" and "e" vowels.=20
>  This would indeed be a source of noise.   What then ?   She will say=20
> "=C3=A6" instead of both "a" and "e".=20
>
> But then, saying "=C3=A6q=C3=A6" or "=C3=A6:" instead of "=C3=A6" does no=
t help.=20
>
> Thus, another kind of solution is needed !=20
>
That's exactly what I was saying. If you remove the difference between e/a=
=20
you might go on with phoneme inventory reduction and end up in a language=
=20
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_language>with only {a/i/u} and=20
{p,t,k,m,n,s,h}

--=20
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On Friday, June 22, 2012 5:21:55 PM UTC+4, Escape Landsome wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">&gt; If this doesn't work, then the prob=
lem isn't the language but either
<br>&gt; the speaker's own vowel pronunciation or the surrounding noise its=
elf.
<br>&gt; Chances are, in such an overwhelmingly noisy environment, even you=
r
<br>&gt; "q" would be misheard as a different consonant: "aqa" as "aka", "i=
qi"
<br>&gt; as "iji", etc.
<br>
<br>I am misunderstood. &nbsp;"q" is an hypothetical new consonant. &nbsp;I=
t has
<br>nothing to do with guttural q=C3=A2f, or any guttural, hence any "k" or
<br>"kh" or "q". &nbsp; It is just a void symbol like "x" in algebra.
<br>
<br>&gt; A simpler solution:
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; : &lt;- [=CB=90]
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; a:
<br>&gt; e:
<br>&gt; i:
<br>&gt; o:
<br>&gt; u:
<br>&gt; so'a:
<br>&gt; so'e:
<br>&gt; so'i:
<br>&gt; so'o:
<br>&gt; so'u:
<br>&gt; ...
<br>
<br>This does not work, nor does "VqV" either.
<br>
<br>Why ? &nbsp;Because, suppose somebody mispronounces the "a" and "e" vow=
els.
<br>&nbsp;This would indeed be a source of noise. &nbsp; What then ? &nbsp;=
 She will say
<br>"=C3=A6" instead of both "a" and "e".
<br>
<br>But then, saying "=C3=A6q=C3=A6" or "=C3=A6:" instead of "=C3=A6" does =
not help.
<br>
<br>Thus, another kind of solution is needed !
<br></blockquote><div>That's exactly what I was saying. If you remove the d=
ifference between e/a you might go on with phoneme inventory reduction and =
end up in a <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_language">l=
anguage </a>with only {a/i/u} and {p,t,k,m,n,s,h}</div>

<p></p>

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