Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:46977) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SikVT-0006Vt-Kj; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:57:33 -0700 Received: by qcsq5 with SMTP id q5sf3613122qcs.16 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:57:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=nV1orIKl3JM0p24cfH/nEKEEdo98XMs7XUUsT10Z7T8=; b=oIJoUzysrxmHitMHHSaVEugKwWuq3dh7+1My5ii8RJFneO47/P5Q5Ntav/58GbrwxZ ZB+PBjcb7HT4oB55p+jWlZOlmZZkYzBClqouRrUUHm9wwi7YllZG6WligJaX3xgDn/g9 5AsyGHivRea2X/sTzX34YC0eyK0T5Ryoc4tQo= Received: by 10.68.232.230 with SMTP id tr6mr789611pbc.16.1340535440780; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:57:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.240.172 with SMTP id wb12ls10896844pbc.3.gmail; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.235.37 with SMTP id uj5mr808842pbc.13.1340535439701; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:57:18 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5b45b636-9709-4409-a900-f7442b7e6603@googlegroups.com> References: <5b45b636-9709-4409-a900-f7442b7e6603@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: {fa'a} and expressing "towards" in Lojban. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5_11214501.1340535438962" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_5_11214501.1340535438962 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 And there is the same problem with {to'o} which looks like the opposite of {fa'a}. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Directional+Spatial gives the example ki'u ma lo do gerku cu bajra to'o do"Why does your dog run away from you?" Why not teka'a?And what is the relation between {to'o} and {tefa'a}? On Sunday, June 24, 2012 12:27:21 PM UTC+4, gleki wrote: > > Robin and I have been talking about {fa'a}. > > Assume for the moment that {fa'a do} definitely means "facing > you"; i.e. it's about direction/orientation, and not about movement or > something else. > So {mi klama pu tu'a do} =~ {lo nu mi klama cu purci tu'a do}, > right? > Oh, also assume that *farna* is about > facing/direction/orientation, which is much less clear. > So I think that {mi klama fa'a do} means, approx, {lo nu mi > klama cu se farna do} > i.e. "the event of my going, as a whole, faces you". > Which, generally speaking, is a pretty remarkably useless > concept. > But I can't see how to make it mean "I go towards you" or "I'm > facing you as I go" without raping the tense system with a buffalo. In a > recent poem it was said something like {ko'a catlu fa'a lo canko} - "He > looked in the direction of the window" as opposed to {ko'a catlu lo canko} > - "he looked at the window". > > As for me, i perceived farna as a vector. fa'a = having a vector oriented > towards... > > Before commenting please read http://dag.github.com/cll/10/28/ > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Directional+Spatial and the > previous discussion at http://www.lojban.org/tiki/fa'a%20as%20orientation. > > So two questions > 1. How to say "go towards..."? > 2. What fa'a really means or should mean? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/68EZlXpFOu4J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_5_11214501.1340535438962 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And there is the same problem with {to'o} which looks like the opposite of = {fa'a}.
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Directional+Spatial<= /a>  gives the example
ki'u= ma lo do gerku cu bajra to'o do
"Wh= y does your dog run away from you?"
=
Why not teka'a?
And what is the relation between {to'o} and {tefa= 'a}?

On Sunday, June 24, 20= 12 12:27:21 PM UTC+4, gleki wrote:
Robin and I have been talking about {fa'a}.

<rlpowell> Assume for the moment that {fa'a do} definitely m= eans "facing you"; i.e. it's about direction/orientation, and not about mov= ement or something else.
<rlpowell> So {mi klama pu tu'a do= } =3D~ {lo nu mi klama cu purci tu'a do}, right?
<rlpowell>= Oh, also assume that *farna* is about facing/direction/orientation, which = is much less clear.
<rlpowell> So I think that {mi klama fa= 'a do} means, approx, {lo nu mi klama cu se farna do}
<rlpowel= l> i.e. "the event of my going, as a whole, faces you".
<rl= powell> Which, generally speaking, is a pretty remarkably useless concep= t.
<rlpowell> But I can't see how to make it mean "I go tow= ards you" or "I'm facing you as I go" without raping the tense system with = a buffalo. In a recent poem it was said something like {ko'a catlu fa'= a lo canko} - "He looked in the direction of the window"  as opposed t= o {ko'a catlu lo canko} - "he looked at the window".

As for me, i pe= rceived farna as a vector. fa'a =3D having a vector oriented toward= s...


So two questions
1. How to say "go toward= s..."?
2. What fa'a really means or should mean?

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