Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:59160) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SilPt-0006sz-Mi; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:49 -0700 Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2sf4656686pbb.16 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ghB+PgP9dgFb2pWn6eatyYZc3p2eAj+zIWeuypx/hIc=; b=PXP6xyPok2Z4SAgUuGubbB0/lJYRSI03o/x0JqUF8fb+Df8VRrhfVhFl97j8+aXJfM s34Ll/xqAnyHgzp2OS5lprYUed+z3hFz6byIPZzUSzgS5cLVd9tMGH1jkTQWdRfUw/mI UtsriQcP3QuP4erB2v/AZKdPPhYO4AWPRxuRY= Received: by 10.50.51.199 with SMTP id m7mr164099igo.2.1340538939580; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.52.41 with SMTP id f41ls2852948ibg.3.gmail; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.40.230 with SMTP id a6mr5840323igl.2.1340538938485; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.40.230 with SMTP id a6mr5840321igl.2.1340538938474; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f176.google.com (mail-ob0-f176.google.com [209.85.214.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ad4si1849376igc.1.2012.06.24.04.55.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.176; Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id wd18so6988953obb.21 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.187.169 with SMTP id ft9mr5738045igc.16.1340538938283; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.15.74 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <74243394-F7AA-46CD-B731-21E95827CE6B@yahoo.com> <5fbb3fd1-8c00-42a4-9dac-e9889e69757f@googlegroups.com> <000eea56-0a1e-4f54-8862-3cc817d539e1@googlegroups.com> <9cb9e4c0-f3fa-4183-8582-f14de670148c@googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:55:38 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Are Natlang the best case for entropy in communication ? From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / >> A noisy channel would not prevent somebody from understanding >> correctly : "I want nune of those", or "I wand ell of those". =A0 But >> the same noise applied to one of the so'V words would be fatal. > > - I want few of them. > - I wanted few of them. > - I want a few of them. > - I wanna feud over them. > - I won't feud over them. Your objection is valid, yet it lacks some quantitative criterium. Of course, it is true that given enough noise, anything can be confused with anything else. The interest of studying entropy is precisely to quantify the amount of noise under which error can be avoided. That is to say, this noise volume is much less in the case of a whole confusible paradigme (as so'V is) than in any natlang case you would give, or artifically create, for a paradigm is something that shares both naturalness and commonness. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.