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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Are Natlang the best case for entropy in
 communication ?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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That is not evidence.

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 6:20 AM, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:

> > No evidence of any kind. It's beginning to sound like a mindless chant.
> >
> > As those in the scientific community are quite fond of saying, PROVE IT.
>
>
> Entropy is defined as proportional to sum of p.ln p where p are the
> probabities of the given choices.   That means if you begin by
> admitting equiprobability for the sake of simplicity, the more choices
> you have the more confusion you get.
>
> A paradigm being a natural set of choices that arises in natural
> context, it follows that the complexity of two different paradigms
> cooccurring in the same utterance is less than one single paradigm
> which has product cardinal of the two former paradigms, because the
> context specifies clues that helps to desambiguate each of the two
> former paradigms by the other, --- which cannot be done with one
> single big paradigm.
>
> This is well-known and widely acknowledge in Linguistics.
>
> Thus, the example you give with
> [paradigm A with 2 choices] with [paradigm B with 2 choices]
> is much less likely to confuse than the one with
> [paradigm C with 2x2 = 4 choices]
>
> the negative difference is the amount of information given by the
> cross-context.
>
> Thus, any natlang example of 4 choices given as Aa, Ab, Ba, Bb, will
> be less harmful than the lojban example of so'V where you have Xa, Xe,
> Xi, Xo.
>
> This general reasoning must be amended by the fact that some paradigm
> are much more used than others.   It is a reasonable argument that the
> QUANTITY paradigm is much more useful than another very particular
> paradigm, such as RACE OF HORSE, for instance.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That is not evidence.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 24, 201=
2 at 6:20 AM, Escape Landsome <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:escaa=
ape@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">escaaape@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">&gt; No evidence of any kind. It&#39;s beginning to sound=
 like a mindless chant.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; As those in the scientific community are quite fond of saying, PROVE I=
T.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>Entropy is defined as proportional to sum of p.ln p where p are the<b=
r>
probabities of the given choices. =A0 That means if you begin by<br>
admitting equiprobability for the sake of simplicity, the more choices<br>
you have the more confusion you get.<br>
<br>
A paradigm being a natural set of choices that arises in natural<br>
context, it follows that the complexity of two different paradigms<br>
cooccurring in the same utterance is less than one single paradigm<br>
which has product cardinal of the two former paradigms, because the<br>
context specifies clues that helps to desambiguate each of the two<br>
former paradigms by the other, --- which cannot be done with one<br>
single big paradigm.<br>
<br>
This is well-known and widely acknowledge in Linguistics.<br>
<br>
Thus, the example you give with<br>
[paradigm A with 2 choices] with [paradigm B with 2 choices]<br>
is much less likely to confuse than the one with<br>
[paradigm C with 2x2 =3D 4 choices]<br>
<br>
the negative difference is the amount of information given by the cross-con=
text.<br>
<br>
Thus, any natlang example of 4 choices given as Aa, Ab, Ba, Bb, will<br>
be less harmful than the lojban example of so&#39;V where you have Xa, Xe,<=
br>
Xi, Xo.<br>
<br>
This general reasoning must be amended by the fact that some paradigm<br>
are much more used than others. =A0 It is a reasonable argument that the<br=
>
QUANTITY paradigm is much more useful than another very particular<br>
paradigm, such as RACE OF HORSE, for instance.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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