Received: from mail-qa0-f62.google.com ([209.85.216.62]:47871) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SinlC-0000MI-I9; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:55 -0700 Received: by qaea17 with SMTP id a17sf2470079qae.27 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=bOs34nD5DZkLvei+8fpJ0RwsjB3y83FP26vpJy16OSw=; b=pB/HQBEWW3xO2b3maPGluru/1MVUqk58mLX1yH/fDI+Np2LLKIyId7JFkTugbV9RW3 SpR5t9YgxjttCNNdhGijO4aQDX+fU/ZDjQGDwvN3Hzs5bMO1TiVrfcZ3WhDSmdoCXAqZ +2HPkybH/W2LhsoupRjN7/ZyISGHpdy42IRJk= Received: by 10.236.175.202 with SMTP id z50mr893787yhl.15.1340547947989; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.157.15 with SMTP id j15ls731511ano.6.gmail; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.191.40 with SMTP id f28mr16454889yhn.2.1340547946485; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.191.40 with SMTP id f28mr16454887yhn.2.1340547946472; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f173.google.com (mail-gg0-f173.google.com [209.85.161.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a57si21499475yhh.5.2012.06.24.07.25.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.173; Received: by ggnp1 with SMTP id p1so2715931ggn.32 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.51.132 with SMTP id k4mr5913413igo.17.1340547946255; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.15.74 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <74243394-F7AA-46CD-B731-21E95827CE6B@yahoo.com> <5fbb3fd1-8c00-42a4-9dac-e9889e69757f@googlegroups.com> <000eea56-0a1e-4f54-8862-3cc817d539e1@googlegroups.com> <9cb9e4c0-f3fa-4183-8582-f14de670148c@googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:25:46 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Are Natlang the best case for entropy in communication ? From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / * NUMERICAL ESTIMATE OF ENTROPY IN EXAMPLE (1) : For instance in French : << et alors elle a ouvert la mouche pour parler >> is correctly understood as << la bouche >> instead of << la mouche >>. =A0 Still the set X of all possible choices is big : X =3D { bouche, couche, douche, louche, mouche, souche, touche } But the context prevents other Xouche words than body organs to be selected, so the entropy is very low in context. p(bouche) > 0.9, sum p(Xouche) < 0.1 for other X, since worst case is equiprobability for all those, S(example 1) < -(0.9*log_2(0.9) + 6*0.1*log_2(0.1)) =3D 2.129 * NUMERICAL ESTIMATE OF ENTROPY IN EXAMPLE (2) : Now consider a lojban sentence where somebody would talk of a number of people in a room, he would use so'V but would mistype the V letter. The X set has 5 elements but none of them can be best selected given the context. THEN S(example 2) ~ -5*log_2(0.2) =3D 11.609 * 11.609 IS MUCH BIGGER THAN 2.129 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.