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Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:36:25 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj2K-yrQCHeDv5iKQpZ+_sH1QG_7OPEh3V_n=9sHiHaBaw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Are Natlang the best case for entropy in
 communication ?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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You can't do a mathematical proof when dealing with humans. Humans are much
too complex to be able to be reduced to mathematical forms, especially with
regard to social interactions, of which language is a member.

And you STILL HAVEN'T SAID WHY YOU BROUGHT THIS UP.

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Also "scientificity" isn't a word.
>
> It is in my natlang, but sorry this does not exist in English.
>
>
>
> Come, what you want is the prove that S(Example 2) much bigger than
> mean value of S(Example 1s) for all Example 1s we can imagine.
>
> I reply with a minoration.   A minoration IS A MATHEMATICAL proof.
> If I was asked by you if an elephant is bigger than a mouse, even
> without precisely measuring both animals, I could reason like that :
>
> Size(Elephant) much bigger than 1 meter
>
> Size(Mouse), smaller then 0.30 meter
>
> => thus Size(Elephant) much bigger than Size(Mouse)
>
>
> This is the same here, simply you don't perceive how much bigger is
> S(E2) relatively to all S(E1).
>
>
> But, anyway, well, I surrender.   There must be somewhere  studies
> recording estimates of S(E1s) for a lot of E1 situations where one
> letter is mistyped.
>
> And I bet mean value of S(E1s) is between 1 and 1.58, which is the
> most natural estimate tells us that in natural context there are in
> the worst cases 2 ou 3 possibilities.
>
> You see, I make this a prediction that can be falsified, in a
> popperish way of science.   This is what I bet.
>
> And this is still less than 2.3 which is THE PROVED VALUE of S(E2).
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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You can&#39;t do a mathematical proof when dealing with humans. Humans are =
much too complex to be able to be reduced to mathematical forms, especially=
 with regard to social interactions, of which language is a member.<br><br>
And you STILL HAVEN&#39;T SAID WHY YOU BROUGHT THIS UP.<br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Escape Landsome <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:escaaape@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">escaaa=
pe@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">&gt; Also &quot;scientific=
ity&quot; isn&#39;t a word.<br>
<br>
</div>It is in my natlang, but sorry this does not exist in English.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Come, what you want is the prove that S(Example 2) much bigger than<br>
mean value of S(Example 1s) for all Example 1s we can imagine.<br>
<br>
I reply with a minoration. =A0 A minoration IS A MATHEMATICAL proof.<br>
If I was asked by you if an elephant is bigger than a mouse, even<br>
without precisely measuring both animals, I could reason like that :<br>
<br>
Size(Elephant) much bigger than 1 meter<br>
<br>
Size(Mouse), smaller then 0.30 meter<br>
<br>
=3D&gt; thus Size(Elephant) much bigger than Size(Mouse)<br>
<br>
<br>
This is the same here, simply you don&#39;t perceive how much bigger is<br>
S(E2) relatively to all S(E1).<br>
<br>
<br>
But, anyway, well, I surrender. =A0 There must be somewhere =A0studies<br>
recording estimates of S(E1s) for a lot of E1 situations where one<br>
letter is mistyped.<br>
<br>
And I bet mean value of S(E1s) is between 1 and 1.58, which is the<br>
most natural estimate tells us that in natural context there are in<br>
the worst cases 2 ou 3 possibilities.<br>
<br>
You see, I make this a prediction that can be falsified, in a<br>
popperish way of science. =A0 This is what I bet.<br>
<br>
And this is still less than 2.3 which is THE PROVED VALUE of S(E2).<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

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?hl=3Den.<br />



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