Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:49161)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCszbr_BBoEKYtEGw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SkrqO-0006Qj-6P; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:50 -0700
Received: by bkwj4 with SMTP id j4sf2370548bkw.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:40 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=QTMDGZuBVlxhMrZGkJzjcf/wC+M0uH6jP1WFAqgt1cQ=;
        b=DYP2mvMSTjJsPDnw3RgeA6QjWOG3Vjz9odOddo7UQ7nWoKCSR7EK3pKLvl0H2XB9IO
         XdYyREbu1EPIb2b+rUBiB0vGfBDU/kYrRo9cGuNI7CY5aJbqd8OCvXf2pr0rH8Wmi4v/
         /4cejtwPfAgdlgRAX8Tb9jY9RUN7bNKjUwrXE=
Received: by 10.204.129.7 with SMTP id m7mr223597bks.32.1341040300450;
        Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.152.214 with SMTP id h22ls4485628bkw.4.gmail; Sat, 30 Jun
 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.205.122.65 with SMTP id gf1mr584513bkc.2.1341040299712;
        Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.205.122.65 with SMTP id gf1mr584512bkc.2.1341040299678;
        Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lb0-f171.google.com (mail-lb0-f171.google.com [209.85.217.171])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k7si3991925bks.2.2012.06.30.00.11.39
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.171;
Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id m4so7464382lbo.30
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.146.169 with SMTP id td9mr4819644lab.42.1341040299417;
 Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.152.46.36 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7373fbfd-72cb-4700-a946-451d21c5cdd4@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAOQ8VDVi9uCaAmwUmvY_=Ea0yqgrzPthQv_ak-Wq_7ZZoCZtxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3gBMCuv=vxZity_RtK9Z6fOXyCVfNb5Zr_HjWkxK0OKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7373fbfd-72cb-4700-a946-451d21c5cdd4@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 01:11:39 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj3r3YFGknXZqsGh-Ls+s=Zhadt=25JFdm9kfVyAxk-Gsg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] The x3 of {srana}
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.171 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234589ad210104c3ab4667
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

--e89a8f234589ad210104c3ab4667
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

No, but only because srana has no x3. IFF srana had the x3 "in aspect",
then yes.

The point of the discussion is that we think srana /should/ have that x3,
thus negating the need to use sekai.

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:05 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

> sorry for a question from a nintadni. Can't {sekai} be used as an
> alternative to x3-srana and similar brivla?
>
>
> On Friday, June 29, 2012 9:49:24 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>
>> I agree. There's actually a lot of gismu that I feel are missing a place,
>> most of which are specifically for reasons of regularity, i.e. all the
>> other gismu of the same class have place structure "x1 is broda of x2 in
>> way x3", and this one is only "x1 is broda of x2".
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> coi rodo
>>>
>>> Twice now, I've had to use {sekai} in order to get a sort of "complete
>>> srana" such that "srana = x1 pertains to x2 in aspect x3".
>>> I feel like this should be a part of the place structure of srana
>>> proper. Adding a place to a gismu breaks no usage, as we all know, so
>>> there is no fear of corrupting existing Lojban.
>>>
>>> Does anyone agree?
>>>
>>> mu'o mi'e la tsani
>>>
>>> p.s. I'm not really *proposing* that we effect this change *now*. But,
>>> I'm just saying that it would be really neat, if maybe when a bigger
>>> reworking of the language comes around, that we add this place, which
>>> seems really srana to srana, if you know what I mean.
>>>
>>> I'll also be adding this to the gismu issues page.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "lojban" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@**
>>> googlegroups.com <lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
>>> group/lojban?hl=en <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en>.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>
>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>
>>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/mR_hQRaAV6QJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--e89a8f234589ad210104c3ab4667
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No, but only because srana has no x3. IFF srana had the x3 &quot;in aspect&=
quot;, then yes.<br><br>The point of the discussion is that we think srana =
/should/ have that x3, thus negating the need to use sekai.<br><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:05 AM, gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
sorry for a question from a nintadni. Can&#39;t {sekai} be used as an alter=
native to x3-srana and similar brivla?<div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br>On Fri=
day, June 29, 2012 9:49:24 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">
I agree. There&#39;s actually a lot of gismu that I feel are missing a plac=
e, most of which are specifically for reasons of regularity, i.e. all the o=
ther gismu of the same class have place structure &quot;x1 is broda of x2 i=
n way x3&quot;, and this one is only &quot;x1 is broda of x2&quot;.<br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Jacob Erri=
ngton <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nictytan@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">nictytan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">

coi rodo<br>
<br>
Twice now, I&#39;ve had to use {sekai} in order to get a sort of &quot;comp=
lete<br>
srana&quot; such that &quot;srana =3D x1 pertains to x2 in aspect x3&quot;.=
<br>
I feel like this should be a part of the place structure of srana<br>
proper. Adding a place to a gismu breaks no usage, as we all know, so<br>
there is no fear of corrupting existing Lojban.<br>
<br>
Does anyone agree?<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la tsani<br>
<br>
p.s. I&#39;m not really *proposing* that we effect this change *now*. But,<=
br>
I&#39;m just saying that it would be really neat, if maybe when a bigger<br=
>
reworking of the language comes around, that we add this place, which<br>
seems really srana to srana, if you know what I mean.<br>
<br>
I&#39;ll also be adding this to the gismu issues page.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban+unsubscribe@<u></u>goo=
glegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<u></u>grou=
p/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o =
mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi=
.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father=
. :D )<br>

<br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br></div></div>
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban/-/mR_hQRaAV6QJ" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com=
/d/msg/lojban/-/mR_hQRaAV6QJ</a>.<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><b=
r>=20
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--e89a8f234589ad210104c3ab4667--