On Sat, Jun 30, 20= 12 at 12:54 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not saying either, though. I think t= hose gismu which lack the places of their compatriots /do/ need them, and n= ot merely because their lack makes them irregular. For example, if you want= ed to say that ko'a is the adopted sister of ko'e, you could easily= do so, as mensi is "x1 is the sister of x2 by bond/tie x3". Howe= ver, if you wanted to say that ko'a is the adopted daughter of ko'i= , you have a more difficult time, because tixnu lacks the by bond x3: "= ;x1 is the daughter of parent(s) x2 (no necessarily biological)".

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ian Johnso= n <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
It's a matter of perspective, basically. You can say that the ones whic= h delete places for reason of non-necessity are irregular, but if so they a= re still useful, or you can say they are different entirely, in which case = it's a moot point. In either case there's no real disagreement here= .

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Jonathan Jones &l= t;eyeonus@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:

Absolutely none of the gismu= I am referring to are like that. I'd have to actually look to find out= , but there are for example, the familial gismu, of which all are "x1 = is [famillial relationship] to x2 by bond/tie x3" except those which a= re missing the x2, and IIRC some of the measurement gismu do not have a sub= units place, some of the metric measurement gismu do not have a by standard= place, etc.

I'm not referring to, for example, the difference between {klama} a= nd {litru}, which are similar relationships, but to those gismu which are i= n the same category of relationship. ("Brother" and "Cousin&= quot; are not similar relationships but are of the same category (for my cu= rrent chosen meaning of similar), for example.)

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Ian Johnso= n <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
Sometimes these are like that because "this gismu is that gismu but wi= thout this being inherent to it". I agree in many cases, though.
mu'o mi'e la latro'a noi ge lo bebna cu cmene ke'a gi zo = latros pu cmene ke'a

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree. There's actually a lot of gismu that I feel are missing a plac= e, most of which are specifically for reasons of regularity, i.e. all the o= ther gismu of the same class have place structure "x1 is broda of x2 i= n way x3", and this one is only "x1 is broda of x2".

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Jacob Erri= ngton <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
coi rodo

Twice now, I've had to use {sekai} in order to get a sort of "comp= lete
srana" such that "srana =3D x1 pertains to x2 in aspect x3".=
I feel like this should be a part of the place structure of srana
proper. Adding a place to a gismu breaks no usage, as we all know, so
there is no fear of corrupting existing Lojban.

Does anyone agree?

mu'o mi'e la tsani

p.s. I'm not really *proposing* that we effect this change *now*. But,<= br> I'm just saying that it would be really neat, if maybe when a bigger reworking of the language comes around, that we add this place, which
seems really srana to srana, if you know what I mean.

I'll also be adding this to the gismu issues page.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'= ;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
=

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )