Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:33066) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Sm3xp-0003Rt-Sn; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:20:31 -0700 Received: by vbzb23 with SMTP id b23sf7234450vbz.16 for ; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:20:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fBd2t55kYMAcKDdwGtQMorVsxivn2TAHCIaDwpQFubE=; b=gY1dsQ1JhRU9drzxx3s8HpgG6M80cnmsDrXY1REONxdye8Am7OPUgyC2EXHPrd8xan G5NvUcDV7GvOJkDZhl2by2al2FgxaNaBQLoZT54DSH4k1+v/fM2S15qX2/tGiyBS+qLT v6UNYHSTTYal+IA1P6MfMOHn1Ec8r2ux16IZE= Received: by 10.52.20.51 with SMTP id k19mr143862vde.8.1341325219221; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:20:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.119.137 with SMTP id z9ls3749264vcq.2.gmail; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.94.111 with SMTP id db15mr32479vdb.11.1341325218755; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 07:20:18 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: John E Clifford Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1340653594.33632.YahooMailNeo@web184408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8c167611-304e-41f2-a07f-2646e1ba5f95@d17g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> <3a449ab1-bdcc-4d52-8a93-1987135e2c05@p27g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <0ddee80d-10a0-427a-8e5f-c3e231a9182e@p27g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <1340653594.33632.YahooMailNeo@web184408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: linguistic singularity MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70_12628425.1341325218522" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_70_12628425.1341325218522 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Monday, June 25, 2012 11:46:34 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: > > The problem with Lojban metaphors (in the real meaning of the term) is > that any time someone suggests ones, someone else points out (usually > correctly) that it doesn't work for speakers of some other language, which > has a different metaphor tradition. Metaphors rely heavily on culture and > Lojban doesn't have one to fall back on, alas. > Which doesn't refute the need in creating them. Often producing a loan translation of some metaphor from any natlang helps understand why it doesn't work in lojban and what flaws in logic and semantics underly this metaphor. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* gleki > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 11:32 AM > *Subject:* [lojban] Re: linguistic singularity > > > > On Monday, June 25, 2012 3:23:57 PM UTC+4, buro...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > coi > > jonathan: some subjects has special trance you can't ignore. > > ianek: here I wrote in simple words you can repeate reading many time > to understand. > > gleki: the links which you suggested is covered by lojban just, but > there few books add something different whatever its title. > > = The topics you suggested with your references concern lojban only, > but there are also a few books that concern also other topics of > interest. > > I suggest other books for personal development. > The Ithkuil Grammar > "Metaphors We Live By" George Lakoff and Mark Johnson. > > They don't cover lojban at all. > Ithkuil is a complicated constructed language not as well thought out as > lojban but still worth reading. > Metaphors are very interesting topic. Lojban actually mostly lacks > metaphors. I wish we created more of them. G. Lakoff's book is now a > classic. > > thanks > > ki'es,di'es,nanmus > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/4fOcmEXfLMMJ. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/TTA74l8WpNEJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_70_12628425.1341325218522 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Monday, June 25, 2012 11:46:34 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
The problem with Lojban metaphors (in the real meaning of th= e term) is that any time someone suggests ones, someone else points out (us= ually correctly) that it doesn't work for speakers of some other language, = which has a different metaphor tradition.  Metaphors rely heavily on c= ulture and Lojban doesn't have one to fall back on, alas.
<= /div>

Which doesn't refute the need i= n creating them. Often producing a loan translation of some metaphor from a= ny natlang helps understand why it doesn't work in lojban and what flaws in= logic and semantics underly this metaphor.


From: gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: [lojban] Re: linguistic singularity
=



On Monday, June 25, 2012 3:23:57 PM UTC+4, buro...@yahoo.co= .uk wrote:
coi

jonathan: some subjects has special trance you can't ignore.

ianek: here I wrote in simple words you can repeate reading many time
to understand.

gleki: the links which you suggested is covered by lojban just, but
there few books add something different whatever its title.

=3D The topics you suggested with your references concern = lojban only, 
but there are also a few books that concern also othe= r topics of 
interest. 

 I = suggest other books for personal development.
The Ithkuil Grammar
"Metaphors We Live By" George Lakoff and Mark Johnson.

They don't cover lojban at all.
Ithkuil is a com= plicated constructed language not as well thought out as lojban but still w= orth reading.
Metaphors are very interesting topic. Lojban actual= ly mostly lacks metaphors. I wish we created more of them. G. Lakoff's book= is now a classic.
thanks

ki'es,di'es,nanmus

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://= groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/4fOcmEXfLMMJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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