Received: from mail-yw0-f57.google.com ([209.85.213.57]:48136) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SnnHy-0003nY-VC; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:41 -0700 Received: by yhr47 with SMTP id 47sf12785204yhr.12 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=DhZbLIp4C3rlbLjG8fTUOoO0MBfIaiOla+kSDrFkePk=; b=B4NdwLf1By1gGGB7x1OXBlMaxvK3Ph4Bnyob7rgsBmVtsi6waUAWTnTE0gSR0NI+i9 nEXy06K3BHKhqST755FNEG69/e2TpiETa937fU8YM/G8eYCVA/OrzUNNWL4x8LBUT7ms J+4h4pSZkRvZxKw35yzLu9TQpJeVBhMCKp0OQ= Received: by 10.224.33.6 with SMTP id f6mr2098936qad.16.1341737776415; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.221.197 with SMTP id id5ls5805582vcb.5.gmail; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.179.69 with SMTP id de5mr28586949vdc.7.1341737775057; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.179.69 with SMTP id de5mr28586948vdc.7.1341737775047; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l12si290831vdf.3.2012.07.08.01.56.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.182; Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so11091724vcb.27 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.90.233 with SMTP id bz9mr14504166vdb.93.1341737774915; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:56:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.24.193 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 01:55:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120708071832.GU3566@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>

From: Jacob Errington Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 04:55:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: jbonunsla 2012: Post #2 To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / .i .o'a mi se srana lo jbonunsla vau zo'o .i zo tolcliva to du'i zo tolyli'a toi jai se jinvi mi fai lo ka cizra gi'enai mabla .i ju'o zo klamu'o matpi be so'ida zmadu The problem with time is that it doesn't exist in Lojban. We just use events as proxies for their durations, which isn't *bad* per se, it's just a bit odd. We give equal interpretation to {ze'a lo mentu be li pano} and {ze'a lo nu do citka} considering that the x1 of both of those descriptions is of the type "event". I'm interested in how dikni helps to solve the "units per unit" issue (which latro'a and I solved using eperimentals). "by standard" isn't too great, but I think rather than killing them all with fire that they should be replaced with possibly more useful variants. It came up in #lojban when talking with Byron about {dukse}, in particular dukse3. It seems like something being too much in some property *only* makes sense when there's either some reference frame/standard/effect. Indeed JVS sucks; anyone up for making JVS2 ? ;) As for what I think about ka... hrm. I've got this page on the wiki that I wrote some months ago; it still reflects what I think to a pretty decent degree. In fact, one thing that I don't agree with anymore is what ce'u subscripting does. In particular, I more strongly advocate the use of ce'ai. Anyway, link: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Tsani's+Interpretations%3A+Abstractors . Stance, and the relevant example, "you went from sitting to standing," is just binxo, I'd say. {.i do binxo lo ka zukte nagi'e sanli} but chances are, we can imply that someone who acquires the property of standing implicitly loses the property of sitting, simplifying like so: {.i do binxo lo ka sanli}. I personally don't think that binxo implies volition though ({lo srasu cu binxo lo ka crino}) maybe using zukte is more appropriate: {.i do zukte lo ka binxo lo ka sanli} or a tanru simplification: {.i do zukte co binxo co sanli}. But, we can also just let volition be implicit, too. Anyway, the position of an object or anything is just lo ka makau selzva ce'u. I don't really see what this "stance" thing is about. mu'o mi'e la tsani On 8 July 2012 04:02, la gleki wrote: > > > On Sunday, July 8, 2012 11:44:52 AM UTC+4, la .lindar. wrote: >> >> From my notes (brief summary to be expanded perhaps never): >> >> {tolcliva} is crap and you pretty much should never use it. >> Agree to disagree on (or attempt to deprecate, or just say 'fuck it' >> regarding) the weird vowel letterals. >> Agree to disagree on whether time can be {clani} or {barda}. >> We solved the "units per unit" issue with {dikni}, but may still have >> other issues. >> Kill with fire all of the 'by standard' places in favour of a BAI that >> does the same thing. > > Pardon? Did you succeed in killing them? >> >> If we don't do the latter, switch the x3 and x4 of {mitre} so the standard >> is in the x3 like every other measurement. >> {muvgau} is perfectly acceptable for "moving my arms", but we still don't >> have a word for "position" (re: Robin's baby words post about changing >> position/stance). >> >> >> Stuff we need to discuss tomorrow: >> latro'a/tsani's idea of how {ka} works. >> JVS sucks hairy balls (I'll get into more detail) >> >> Stuff we need to do tomorrow: >> Play Microscope (or whatever it is) >> Play Xendo >> Record everybody doing one tongue-twister (I need this for a Lojban >> promotional video) >> Get naked and oily. >> >> ...okay, maybe not that last one. >> >> We have around 3.5 hours of video so far, which is going to take me for >> freaking ever to edit. >> Expect episodes and not one big thing. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/yP_DT2KKMHUJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.