Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:41550) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SnztV-0002Q7-3W; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:24:11 -0700 Received: by bkwj4 with SMTP id j4sf3371997bkw.16 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=60Cv4QgDdFDG1hyWBCYQX8ovNe2p2GvFDHvWivui6Jg=; b=nJeIBESxRMJ0Z5BVLe33n45zK5NRS9e/0GsH7VtXM7Zkgzh2d6n3cYcDxHsOSAMSPk ec9qpOx6IkQ0JTjOBG5evtmYE9iTg79urmo/mD4xCLSbnFab8D8tj0Q06Gv/+H13FvXe sw7unYseTYlQjPUgS2bE92szpyRf8vwx4jTY8= Received: by 10.204.130.204 with SMTP id u12mr1154928bks.1.1341786229406; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.131 with SMTP id t3ls5483147bks.9.gmail; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.130.7 with SMTP id q7mr2805837bks.2.1341786227622; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.130.7 with SMTP id q7mr2805836bks.2.1341786227603; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f171.google.com (mail-lb0-f171.google.com [209.85.217.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j4si10337096bkj.3.2012.07.08.15.23.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.171; Received: by lbom4 with SMTP id m4so20763129lbo.30 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.148.1 with SMTP id to1mr37929393lab.34.1341786227141; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.63.48 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120708195033.GY3566@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20120708071832.GU3566@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <4FF980BE.4020406@gmx.de> <20120708195033.GY3566@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 19:23:47 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: jbonunsla 2012: Post #2 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > tolcliva is a poor generic word for "arrive". It's somewhat weird like "tolcanci" for "appear", "tolcri" for "find", "tolclaxu" for "have" because for these concepts I would expect that the one dealing with the presence of something would be the basic one and the one dealing with the absence would be the derived one, but I don't see how "klamu'o" helps, at least with "mulno" as currently defined, "has become whole" rather than "becomes whole", the final state not the point at which that state is achieved. So if you arrived three hours ago, you are now klamu'o, but you are not now tolcliva. "klamulbi'o" would correspond more closely to "arrive". >> >Kill with fire all of the 'by standard' places in favour of a BAI >> >that does the same thing. >> >> I strongly disagree. There are a good number of "by standard" >> places that are used a lot, and I don't want to use BAI to get >> access to them. xamgu3 and dukse3 are two very common examples. > > Quite. I use the x3 of "dukse",often, but I'm not sure I use it as a "by standard" place. I use it for things like: ti dukse lo ka tilju kei lo nu bevri "this is too heavy to carry" dukse lo ka manku kei lo nu ka'e viska "too dark to be able to see" So x3 is an event that doesn't happen because x1 has property x2 to a degree that exceeds the point which would still alow x3 to happen. I'm not sure that counts as a standard, at least it's not the usual standard place. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.