Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:58085) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1So7Ws-0007Dk-Eu; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:33:09 -0700 Received: by vbzb23 with SMTP id b23sf13287503vbz.16 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:33:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=rz/8KUVFurz1CHRQaf1aSqZYag7zfOuwmSRJKYEgA58=; b=cA4mWLzE1h5uS4fdANUY66UgHYlJ0cFT44pppUFqcNSQ5LHm2MnLRhgD35/45AeWoI gOOhdyxz71oHJ2gUa3vAx49NVRCKyvESFNtm/kpMBrZ+ih96IecBD+AvAB27+QgIcqix xzaMiXMnaLYNeHxBixLYi2oCYx36Xgybj5hTs= Received: by 10.50.216.164 with SMTP id or4mr1085268igc.1.1341815579909; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.155.201 with SMTP id vy9ls2894360igb.4.gmail; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.213.98 with SMTP id nr2mr8396506igc.5.1341815579148; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.213.98 with SMTP id nr2mr8396505igc.5.1341815579131; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f170.google.com (mail-ob0-f170.google.com [209.85.214.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s10si2976963igs.0.2012.07.08.23.32.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.170; Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id k16so43676123obf.1 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.171.98 with SMTP id at2mr7487227igc.26.1341815578666; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:32:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.30.68 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 23:32:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0447fc82-51e7-4606-8994-446da569d7b6@googlegroups.com> References: <90a7e54c-42fe-4ee0-9693-8155db9a7646@googlegroups.com> <0447fc82-51e7-4606-8994-446da569d7b6@googlegroups.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 02:32:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any demand for LoCCan3? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234b33eba6e904c45fc8a9 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8f234b33eba6e904c45fc8a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ithkuil is not a Loglan derivative, indeed it's not even a loglang, although it is an engelang. And Ithkuil was never meant to be spoken by anyone. It's a proof-of-concept project. For myself, if Lojban (or even Loglan) is 'good enough', then so is any natlang. I'd rather start from scratch, using knowledge gained from previous attempts, than continue learning or using a language that is merely 'good enough'. stevo On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:11 AM, la gleki wrote: > > > On Sunday, July 8, 2012 11:31:30 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >> I would prefer we didn't have another split, myself. We have Loglan, >> Lojban, Gua/Spi, Ithkuil, and possibly other much less known derivatives >> already. Every time someone decides to start a new lojbau, everyone >> suffers. And regardless of what problems your chosen lojbau is, it isn't >> perfect. It never will be. Dividing our efforts just makes it so that the >> true goal of all these languages- to be /spoken/ by /people/- will never be >> accomplished. >> >> The quest for perfection is a futile one. What we have with Lojban now is >> good. Granted, it could be better, but that will always be true. It was >> true of "LoCCan1", it's true of "LoCCan2", and it will be true of >> "LoCCan34234234234". Starting over from scratch isn't the solution. Yes, >> you may be able to make a new lojbau that doesn't have the problems you >> perceive in "LoCCanN-1", but by making it, you create a new divide. >> >> If we want jbogugde to exist, if we want people to speak our language- >> whichever one we decide on- then what we need to do is not to make a new >> one whenever we see problems. We need to either find an acceptable solution >> /within/ our language, or we need to /deal with it/. >> >> French is the third largest language on the internet. How many people do >> you think would bother to learn French if every region had their own, >> mutually incompatible dialects? Would English be nearly as pervasive as it >> is if British, Australian, South African, and U.S. English speakers >> couldn't understand each other? >> >> To quote a rather famous saying, "Divided we fall, united we stand". I >> view LoCCan3, and any other split, as the worst possible thing that could >> happen to us as a whole. >> >> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, la .lindar. wrote: >> >>> Curious... >>> >>> Why not just make it already? >>> Quit talking and just do it. >_> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/** >>> msg/lojban/-/w5Smfyps8F8J >>> . >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@** >>> googlegroups.com . >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/lojban?hl=en . >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> > pe'isai For me proposals like xorxes's proposal for connectives are > acceptable. > pe'isai And Rosta's is not (mere relexing is even less acceptable). But > I'll study it anyway if ey publishes it. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/qM7QZfsDSj0J. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --e89a8f234b33eba6e904c45fc8a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ithkuil is not a Loglan derivative, indeed it's not even a loglang, alt= hough it is an engelang. And Ithkuil was never meant to be spoken by anyone= . It's a proof-of-concept project.=A0

For myself, if= Lojban (or even Loglan) is 'good enough', then so is any natlang. = I'd rather start from scratch, using knowledge gained from previous att= empts, than continue learning or using a language that is merely 'good = enough'.=A0

stevo

On Mon, Ju= l 9, 2012 at 1:11 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>= ; wrote:


On Sunday, July 8,= 2012 11:31:30 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
I would prefer we didn't have another split, myself. We have Loglan, Lo= jban, Gua/Spi, Ithkuil, and possibly other much less known derivatives alre= ady. Every time someone decides to start a new lojbau, everyone suffers. An= d regardless of what problems your chosen lojbau is, it isn't perfect. = It never will be. Dividing our efforts just makes it so that the true goal = of all these languages- to be /spoken/ by /people/- will never be accomplis= hed.

The quest for perfection is a futile one. What we have with Lojban now = is good. Granted, it could be better, but that will always be true. It was = true of "LoCCan1", it's true of "LoCCan2", and it w= ill be true of "LoCCan34234234234". Starting over from scratch is= n't the solution. Yes, you may be able to make a new lojbau that doesn&= #39;t have the problems you perceive in "LoCCanN-1", but by makin= g it, you create a new divide.

If we want jbogugde to exist, if we want people to speak our language- = whichever one we decide on- then what we need to do is not to make a new on= e whenever we see problems. We need to either find an acceptable solution /= within/ our language, or we need to /deal with it/.

French is the third largest language on the internet. How many people d= o you think would bother to learn French if every region had their own, mut= ually incompatible dialects? Would English be nearly as pervasive as it is = if British, Australian, South African, and U.S. English speakers couldn'= ;t understand each other?

To quote a rather famous saying, "Divided we fall, united we stand= ". I view LoCCan3, and any other split, as the worst possible thing th= at could happen to us as a whole.

On Sun,= Jul 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, la .lindar. <lindarthebard@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Curious...

Why not just m= ake it already?
Quit talking and just do it. >_>

--
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/w5Smfyps8F8J.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )


pe'isai For me proposals lik= e xorxes's proposal for connectives are acceptable.
pe'is= ai=A0And Rosta's is not (mere relexing is even less acceptable). But I&= #39;ll study it anyway if ey publishes it.

--
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/qM7QZfsDSj0J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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