Received: from mail-ee0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]:43099) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1So7gq-0007Mp-BW; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:32 -0700 Received: by eekb57 with SMTP id b57sf7956249eek.16 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=KWh3SuDyCuCAP2O8LmYM3BfVG7evpRzEPLTRSgJdSio=; b=K+6tE0SNtftNei4pL1AjTlaeELFMtbzK1nneqUhuNbMLexjIioTsFiY4Y/VbVoY5AF O3oetWttRRRmjGrrpzGikLKhX3KSZN+hjVVRoEknAErkxqwwtOFpupJ5X0kud+LPyxLr EvwXFWvSlghHj0kLMtu+/eZQj4uzlvf4po4/Q= Received: by 10.204.150.91 with SMTP id x27mr1508044bkv.31.1341816196525; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.4.74 with SMTP id 10ls7026488bkq.0.gmail; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.151.213 with SMTP id d21mr1782894bkw.0.1341816194864; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.151.213 with SMTP id d21mr1782893bkw.0.1341816194837; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f179.google.com (mail-lb0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j4si10558598bkj.3.2012.07.08.23.43.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.179; Received: by mail-lb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id n1so14839911lba.10 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.99.71 with SMTP id eo7mr18201597lbb.84.1341816194560; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.46.36 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 23:43:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <90a7e54c-42fe-4ee0-9693-8155db9a7646@googlegroups.com> <0447fc82-51e7-4606-8994-446da569d7b6@googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 00:43:14 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any demand for LoCCan3? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04016a23a173d904c45fed44 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04016a23a173d904c45fed44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well then, have fun with that. I'm sorry to see you go. On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:32 AM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > Ithkuil is not a Loglan derivative, indeed it's not even a loglang, > although it is an engelang. And Ithkuil was never meant to be spoken by > anyone. It's a proof-of-concept project. > > For myself, if Lojban (or even Loglan) is 'good enough', then so is any > natlang. I'd rather start from scratch, using knowledge gained from > previous attempts, than continue learning or using a language that is > merely 'good enough'. > > stevo > > > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:11 AM, la gleki wrote: > >> >> >> On Sunday, July 8, 2012 11:31:30 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>> >>> I would prefer we didn't have another split, myself. We have Loglan, >>> Lojban, Gua/Spi, Ithkuil, and possibly other much less known derivatives >>> already. Every time someone decides to start a new lojbau, everyone >>> suffers. And regardless of what problems your chosen lojbau is, it isn't >>> perfect. It never will be. Dividing our efforts just makes it so that the >>> true goal of all these languages- to be /spoken/ by /people/- will never be >>> accomplished. >>> >>> The quest for perfection is a futile one. What we have with Lojban now >>> is good. Granted, it could be better, but that will always be true. It was >>> true of "LoCCan1", it's true of "LoCCan2", and it will be true of >>> "LoCCan34234234234". Starting over from scratch isn't the solution. Yes, >>> you may be able to make a new lojbau that doesn't have the problems you >>> perceive in "LoCCanN-1", but by making it, you create a new divide. >>> >>> If we want jbogugde to exist, if we want people to speak our language- >>> whichever one we decide on- then what we need to do is not to make a new >>> one whenever we see problems. We need to either find an acceptable solution >>> /within/ our language, or we need to /deal with it/. >>> >>> French is the third largest language on the internet. How many people do >>> you think would bother to learn French if every region had their own, >>> mutually incompatible dialects? Would English be nearly as pervasive as it >>> is if British, Australian, South African, and U.S. English speakers >>> couldn't understand each other? >>> >>> To quote a rather famous saying, "Divided we fall, united we stand". I >>> view LoCCan3, and any other split, as the worst possible thing that could >>> happen to us as a whole. >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, la .lindar. wrote: >>> >>>> Curious... >>>> >>>> Why not just make it already? >>>> Quit talking and just do it. >_> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/** >>>> msg/lojban/-/w5Smfyps8F8J >>>> . >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@** >>>> googlegroups.com . >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/lojban?hl=en . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> >> pe'isai For me proposals like xorxes's proposal for connectives are >> acceptable. >> pe'isai And Rosta's is not (mere relexing is even less acceptable). But >> I'll study it anyway if ey publishes it. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/qM7QZfsDSj0J. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d04016a23a173d904c45fed44 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well then, have fun with that. I'm sorry to see you go.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:32 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytles= w@gmail.com> wrote:
Ithkuil is not a Loglan derivative, indeed i= t's not even a loglang, although it is an engelang. And Ithkuil was nev= er meant to be spoken by anyone. It's a proof-of-concept project.=A0
For myself, if Lojban (or even Loglan) is 'good enough&#= 39;, then so is any natlang. I'd rather start from scratch, using knowl= edge gained from previous attempts, than continue learning or using a langu= age that is merely 'good enough'.=A0

stevo


On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:11 AM, la gleki <= ;gleki.is.m= y.name@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sunday, July 8, 2012 11:31:3= 0 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
I would prefer we didn't have another split, myself. We have Loglan, Lo= jban, Gua/Spi, Ithkuil, and possibly other much less known derivatives alre= ady. Every time someone decides to start a new lojbau, everyone suffers. An= d regardless of what problems your chosen lojbau is, it isn't perfect. = It never will be. Dividing our efforts just makes it so that the true goal = of all these languages- to be /spoken/ by /people/- will never be accomplis= hed.

The quest for perfection is a futile one. What we have with Lojban now = is good. Granted, it could be better, but that will always be true. It was = true of "LoCCan1", it's true of "LoCCan2", and it w= ill be true of "LoCCan34234234234". Starting over from scratch is= n't the solution. Yes, you may be able to make a new lojbau that doesn&= #39;t have the problems you perceive in "LoCCanN-1", but by makin= g it, you create a new divide.

If we want jbogugde to exist, if we want people to speak our language- = whichever one we decide on- then what we need to do is not to make a new on= e whenever we see problems. We need to either find an acceptable solution /= within/ our language, or we need to /deal with it/.

French is the third largest language on the internet. How many people d= o you think would bother to learn French if every region had their own, mut= ually incompatible dialects? Would English be nearly as pervasive as it is = if British, Australian, South African, and U.S. English speakers couldn'= ;t understand each other?

To quote a rather famous saying, "Divided we fall, united we stand= ". I view LoCCan3, and any other split, as the worst possible thing th= at could happen to us as a whole.

On Sun,= Jul 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, la .lindar. <lindarthebard@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Curious...

Why not just m= ake it already?
Quit talking and just do it. >_>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/w5Smfyps8F8J.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )


pe'isai For me proposals lik= e xorxes's proposal for connectives are acceptable.
pe'is= ai=A0And Rosta's is not (mere relexing is even less acceptable). But I&= #39;ll study it anyway if ey publishes it.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/qM7QZfsDSj0J.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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