Received: from mail-fa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]:35603) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Sog0A-0003Et-8H; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:41 -0700 Received: by fadw1 with SMTP id w1sf203401fad.16 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/Igt0YKFDIG4tUcAcRv04O2fiZG9H8zOSJsUW6dH3jc=; b=PPOi5i4Z9gMInCmjw2pfqpblqg6LFIEY5sdKLxigKU+0Tw6wwcWZ2gEX9deKKWggYU 2sWWcK89AcnYwaDkcUpGGy3+YO/xSCgZqnl30Oo7uiScyzNNZOqoey48WciP4L3rx6pE FxRQ6jAABQ9U4/TNFsH9nnjUTcd+6U0hVHQXU= Received: by 10.216.85.204 with SMTP id u54mr516639wee.75.1341948086406; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.186.6 with SMTP id v6ls1174849eem.2.gmail; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.27.203 with SMTP id e51mr14822686eea.12.1341948084987; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.27.203 with SMTP id e51mr14822685eea.12.1341948084966; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f171.google.com (mail-ey0-f171.google.com [209.85.215.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b16si25080762eeg.3.2012.07.10.12.21.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.171; Received: by eaaa12 with SMTP id a12so239301eaa.16 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.94.142 with SMTP id n14mr11214160eef.211.1341948084550; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (cpc2-pres4-0-0-cust1921.pres.cable.virginmedia.com. [80.192.151.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p41sm105041441eef.5.2012.07.10.12.21.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FFC80B1.6010804@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 20:21:21 +0100 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any demand for LoCCan3? References: <90a7e54c-42fe-4ee0-9693-8155db9a7646@googlegroups.com>

In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / It's true that the set of people attracted to one engelang probably largely= overlaps the set of people attracted to other engelangs, and hence that a = proliferation of engelangs dilutes interest in any single engelang, tho I d= on't see why that should be a problem. Perhaps you agree with me that human society would be improved if it had ac= cess to a common loglang. In that case, a proliferation of different but al= l adequate loglangs would be unfortunate -- it would be better for there to= be a monopoly of one common loglang. But currently no adequate loglang exi= sts. To create one, I feel you'd have to encourage both plurality of compet= ing (but unowned) candidates and one or more collaboratively created candid= ates -- in the hope of generating the best ideas and finding solutions to u= nsolved problems. If no adequate loglang existed but it was easy to make on= e, I expect I and others would have made one and published it, but it's not= easy to find a way to unambiguously encode logical forms in an ergonomic w= ay. --And. Jonathan Jones, On 08/07/2012 20:31: > I would prefer we didn't have another split, myself. We have Loglan, Lojb= an, Gua/Spi, Ithkuil, and possibly other much less known derivatives alread= y. Every time someone decides to start a new lojbau, everyone suffers. And = regardless of what problems your chosen lojbau is, it isn't perfect. It nev= er will be. Dividing our efforts just makes it so that the true goal of all= these languages- to be /spoken/ by /people/- will never be accomplished. > > The quest for perfection is a futile one. What we have with Lojban now is= good. Granted, it could be better, but that will always be true. It was tr= ue of "LoCCan1", it's true of "LoCCan2", and it will be true of "LoCCan3423= 4234234". Starting over from scratch isn't the solution. Yes, you may be ab= le to make a new lojbau that doesn't have the problems you perceive in "LoC= CanN-1", but by making it, you create a new divide. > > If we want jbogugde to exist, if we want people to speak our language- wh= ichever one we decide on- then what we need to do is not to make a new one = whenever we see problems. We need to either find an acceptable solution /wi= thin/ our language, or we need to /deal with it/. > > French is the third largest language on the internet. How many people do = you think would bother to learn French if every region had their own, mutua= lly incompatible dialects? Would English be nearly as pervasive as it is if= British, Australian, South African, and U.S. English speakers couldn't und= erstand each other? > > To quote a rather famous saying, "Divided we fall, united we stand". I vi= ew LoCCan3, and any other split, as the worst possible thing that could hap= pen to us as a whole. > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, la .lindar. > wrote: > > Curious... > > Why not just make it already? > Quit talking and just do it. >_> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr= oups "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msg/lojban/-/w5Smfyps8F8J. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@goog= legroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.