Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:33250) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SpT5c-0005UY-Sz; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:44 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf3096967obb.16 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xiy4KjfZQkddEH7ztR1N99Dlyzigavm0Z7ObNwvvlyw=; b=rv2/Y764WZvr6IefKlMIERuGwm604O0Nc5gRK8ZxT3gSrVCsCiOMJG6/q7PT6BBjPQ Pc/M5cEv2mBGlQ3ZD0odvk8Xt981g/OYg+bMxTV4hMfbgpeTiVnvCnf9xBZTaCkhYNiF 6OR7PBsH2wTVikRG4R64SmJIHbb0dq8ozlA7U= Received: by 10.50.236.7 with SMTP id uq7mr34197igc.0.1342136786451; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.178.73 with SMTP id cw9ls81905igc.4.canary; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.65.195 with SMTP id xn3mr222378icb.2.1342136785583; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.65.195 with SMTP id xn3mr222377icb.2.1342136785573; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ev10si48100igc.2.2012.07.12.16.46.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.182; Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so3929932obb.41 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.208.8 with SMTP id ma8mr105136igc.41.1342136785107; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.103] (76-76-236-67.lisco.net. [76.76.236.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ga6sm153755igc.2.2012.07.12.16.46.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FFF61CF.9080807@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:46:23 -0500 From: vitci'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Gender, yet again. References: <4FFE5CB0.7050506@gmail.com> <41a043f3-4116-45ad-baab-730e89b69637@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: celestialcognition@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=celestialcognition@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / On 07/12/2012 03:47 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > We already have gismu or lujvo for the meanings of "gender" that are > salient for medicine and science. What are they? On 07/12/2012 06:41 AM, .arpis. wrote: > What if we discarded the idea of a word for "gender" and coined a > term for something that subsumes the concept. I don't particularly > like {ceinse} for being too much like {cinse}, but that's a small > detail. {cinse} was close to what I wanted, so I created {ceinse} as a "corrected version". (I'm assuming that redefining a standard gismu is not going to happen.) > How about: x1 is the internal subjective identity of x2 according to > x3 > > Thus {tu'a lo nanmu mi ceinse} would be "I'm male-gendered" (I'm > putting a tu'a in there because otherwise I feel like I'm saying > something more like {da poi nanmu zo'u da mi ceinse}, which doesn't > make sense.) and {tu'a lo tinbe mi ceinse} could be used for "I'm a > submissive" or {tu'a lo arxokuna mi mi ceinse} for "I self-identify > as a raccoon." (e.g. a furry). That's actually too *narrow* -- it doesn't allow us to talk about how we gender inanimate objects and each other. (E.g., , .) Also, we already have {sevzi} for that. {tu'a le ninmu cu sevzi mi} isn't bad for gender identity, though. On 07/12/2012 08:37 AM, .arpis. wrote: > Besides, if we use such a general word, we could form a tanru/lujvo > between {cinse} and it for the more conventional meaning of > "gender". This overlooks one of my major gripes with {cinse}, which is that officially it also includes sexual orientation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.