Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:45020) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SpUlk-0006Yr-3M; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:34:09 -0700 Received: by bkwj4 with SMTP id j4sf1775448bkw.16 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Xk2ifgiU0+lMyLaaC/KH7dT/kWyvNk3h7OhIHNvxuwU=; b=65IBqutVzvKu7o8yC3T0T8Yd2XGPW0cAmlpuZEqSjZKFsJWDtaMRkfagMe+40R0j9Z BXHfzIUxefJsSPKjgqL/13RO/XjW63WIBwYycMqSdSVaMd1W+eG877rmCGB34TaXMO3d 10sbSKGSggzk2PXmhKmVsNXSgHrOJQvTOItSU= Received: by 10.204.153.214 with SMTP id l22mr18279bkw.3.1342143235056; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.131 with SMTP id t3ls2461300bks.9.gmail; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.126.4 with SMTP id gu4mr46739bkc.8.1342143233526; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.126.4 with SMTP id gu4mr46738bkc.8.1342143233513; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f180.google.com (mail-lb0-f180.google.com [209.85.217.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p5si1586856bks.1.2012.07.12.18.33.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.180; Received: by lbbgj3 with SMTP id gj3so5923558lbb.39 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.24.194 with SMTP id w2mr2096554lbf.75.1342143233151; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.63.48 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:33:53 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] {da} and abstractions From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > > I'm under the impression that this problem is on a higher level than > simple LAhE. Really, it concerns all quantifiers. Which of the five > elements in context are being referred to when we say that we're > referring to two of them, as is the case in {re lo mu broda}. Quantifiers don't refer to anything, they quantify a bridi. "re lo mu broda" doesn't mean much outside of a bridi. "re lo mu broda cu brode" says that exactly two of the five referents of "lo mu broda" satisfy the predicate "brode". It says nothing about which two they are. The problem with "lu'i re lo broda" is that we have a quantifier and a domain of quantification, but no obvious bridi for it to quantify. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.