Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:60055) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SpVzI-0007MK-2I; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:22 -0700 Received: by yhoo21 with SMTP id o21sf1705480yho.16 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=FNKXe3PnOqg3CdiQbWuKiOjnq7z7SM28dn6sgDaSvWI=; b=Q6LQVeAkTScgxQvPvPbqeihYCRO2N4HHZXdtYr5O92nOdRb48/phVuhfKtC2EYtvuE xPrgfkzf74jg3Von9m5beOSBdVA2TCNGEUY1RqwrR6ize/RCwVRXqEc+GKHQY2m7o5hM 5qbwxAJFh65XqPyd3m4Vxn8n15XgBUG38tIkw= Received: by 10.236.75.3 with SMTP id y3mr58964yhd.20.1342147925658; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.93.48 with SMTP id k36ls4605226yhf.6.gmail; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.155.166 with SMTP id j26mr1691179yhk.0.1342147924258; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.155.166 with SMTP id j26mr1691178yhk.0.1342147924248; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f176.google.com (mail-gg0-f176.google.com [209.85.161.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e37si1901444yhi.1.2012.07.12.19.52.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.176; Received: by ggnk4 with SMTP id k4so3701490ggn.35 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.158.130 with SMTP id wu2mr36444igb.32.1342147924037; Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.103] (76-76-236-67.lisco.net. [76.76.236.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ut8sm502428igc.8.2012.07.12.19.52.03 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FFF8D51.7070002@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0500 From: vitci'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Gender, yet again. References: <4FFE5CB0.7050506@gmail.com> <41a043f3-4116-45ad-baab-730e89b69637@googlegroups.com> <4FFF61CF.9080807@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: celestialcognition@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=celestialcognition@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / >>> How about: x1 is the internal subjective identity of x2 according to >>> x3 >>> >>> Thus {tu'a lo nanmu mi ceinse} would be "I'm male-gendered" (I'm >>> putting a tu'a in there because otherwise I feel like I'm saying >>> something more like {da poi nanmu zo'u da mi ceinse}, which doesn't >>> make sense.) and {tu'a lo tinbe mi ceinse} could be used for "I'm a >>> submissive" or {tu'a lo arxokuna mi mi ceinse} for "I self-identify >>> as a raccoon." (e.g. a furry). >> >> That's actually too *narrow* -- it doesn't allow us to talk about how we >> gender inanimate objects and each other. (E.g., , >> .) >> > > The use of "gender" in that context is different than self-identification; > it's targeting based on gender, and that's a tanru/lujvo. What would you tanru/lujvo together to convey that? sevzi is insufficient to distinguish gender identity from other kinds of self-identification (e.g. nationality/culture); klesi and le'e likewise. cinse is narrower, but as I've mentioned also means sexual orientation, and to distinguish which sense is meant we again need a word that means gender. (If we had a word for sex, gender could be constructed by lujvo as "sex stereotype". But we don't.) (Perhaps gender could be {pibykemxarlei} as "pubic stereotype"?) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.